10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

Kahuna wrote:Here is Jed Rothwell's take on the whole Krivit/Levi/Rossi kerfuffle:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40 ... 47936.html

Seems Rothwell was invited to view the E-Cat as well and ended up declining when Rossi nixed the calorimity he wanted to do. He says he sees Rossi's side of things, but Rossi certainly was not open to a closer expert look at the device. OTOH, I really don't believe the UoB Physics department is in on some sort of conspiracy with Rossi. It would have to be incompetence and/or sloppiness to make much sense to me.

PS: It also appears from the comments on 22passi that Levi may give the data he was going to give to Krivit to Passerini instead. He said that he will post it on his blog when/if this happens (at least that is how I read the Google translation).
One more dishonest question.

What do you discuss here my dear Sirs?

What disturb have one engineer and two professors to put the simplest experiment to measure a quantity of allocated heat?
In such a way that nobody would cause doubts.
Mr. Krivit has assumed very correctly: to increase water flow that there was no phase transition into steam.

I see here one children's babble and juggling with some names.
Names of people who or can't correctly put experiment or can’t correctly interpret its results.

Maui
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Location: Madison, WI

Post by Maui »

Joseph Chikva wrote: I see here one children's babble and juggling with some names.
Names of people who or can't correctly put experiment or can’t correctly interpret its results.
How ironic for you to insult the intelligence of this board while you aren't smart enough to figure out how to go somewhere else.

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Maui wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote: I see here one children's babble and juggling with some names.
Names of people who or can't correctly put experiment or can’t correctly interpret its results.
How ironic for you to insult the intelligence of this board while you aren't smart enough to figure out how to go somewhere else.
Yes I am not smart enough for understanding what are you discussing here.

Ivy Matt
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 6:43 am

Post by Ivy Matt »

tomclarke wrote:OK I take them seriously if I want to eat Tilapia.

I don't take their judgement of Rossi seriously.
I have nothing against small Midwestern fish farmers, but I would take them more seriously if I knew they had a Plan B to power their facility in case the E-Cat proves to be less than useful.
tomclarke wrote:PS - they link to this site who will be supplying E-Cats.

Read the link carefully... It has some very pretty pictures...
I saw that before, but didn't notice some of the links. I think Zerwell Energy is less a supplier than a potential customer of an E-Cat. I am impressed that the fellow is actually attempting to replicate the Rossi device, but I think it's nothing more than a shot in the dark at this point.
Giorgio wrote:It has been done as a tool to start a finance campaign to create a longer movie-documentary by 2012.
I saw 137 Films (the producers of The Believers) in the credits to the video. I assume their documentary project is the one you mentioned?
Kahuna wrote:Here is Jed Rothwell's take on the whole Krivit/Levi/Rossi kerfuffle:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40 ... 47936.html
I don't endorse everything Jed Rothwell writes, but here I agree with him wholeheartedly (with perhaps a quibble on his understanding of the appeal to authority fallacy). I especially like these words:
I have heard that there are several private tests of Rossi devices now underway. That does not help readers here. You cannot judge data that you are not allowed to see. You cannot form an opinion about it, or bolster your assurance that the machine is real.
There are also some good comments further down on the vortex-l list, under the "Steve Krivit's initiative" thread. The way I see it, there are still some important questions that Rossi doesn't seem to feel like answering for now. His choice, of course, but by the same token outside observers are free to harbor grave doubts about the whole thing. It doesn't make them "pathological skeptics", just reasonably cautious.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

tomclarke
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Contact:

Post by tomclarke »

Ivy Matt wrote:
tomclarke wrote:OK I take them seriously if I want to eat Tilapia.

I don't take their judgement of Rossi seriously.
I have nothing against small Midwestern fish farmers, but I would take them more seriously if I knew they had a Plan B to power their facility in case the E-Cat proves to be less than useful.
tomclarke wrote:PS - they link to this site who will be supplying E-Cats.

Read the link carefully... It has some very pretty pictures...
I saw that before, but didn't notice some of the links. I think Zerwell Energy is less a supplier than a potential customer of an E-Cat. I am impressed that the fellow is actually attempting to replicate the Rossi device, but I think it's nothing more than a shot in the dark at this point.
Giorgio wrote:It has been done as a tool to start a finance campaign to create a longer movie-documentary by 2012.
I saw 137 Films (the producers of The Believers) in the credits to the video. I assume their documentary project is the one you mentioned?
Kahuna wrote:Here is Jed Rothwell's take on the whole Krivit/Levi/Rossi kerfuffle:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40 ... 47936.html
I don't endorse everything Jed Rothwell writes, but here I agree with him wholeheartedly (with perhaps a quibble on his understanding of the appeal to authority fallacy). I especially like these words:
I have heard that there are several private tests of Rossi devices now underway. That does not help readers here. You cannot judge data that you are not allowed to see. You cannot form an opinion about it, or bolster your assurance that the machine is real.
There are also some good comments further down on the vortex-l list, under the "Steve Krivit's initiative" thread. The way I see it, there are still some important questions that Rossi doesn't seem to feel like answering for now. His choice, of course, but by the same token outside observers are free to harbor grave doubts about the whole thing. It doesn't make them "pathological skeptics", just reasonably cautious.
When somone promises something which would be extraordinary, both in rewriting physics and its affect on our civilisation, it is not the same as if somone offers to cut your grass for free.

In the latter case it would be pathologically skeptic to be almost certain the free grass cutter was in fact part of a conspiracy to rob your house, or hired by somone as a joke, even though you might have some doubts about why he was making this offer.

In the former case the default position, without evidence, is that it is almost certain the claims are false. Anything else is denying the history here of many claims and no success so far, and the known psychological and physical realities.

Rossi, we are now all agreed I think, has given us no credible evidence that he has what he claims. Therefore the neutral (neither unduly skeptic nor credulous) position is that it is almost certain he has not got what he claims.

Keep the almost because major and surprising physics breakthroughs can in principle be made be people who have little understanding of physics, behave like scammers, and are secretive in a way that is not explicable. Mind you, I can't think of an example off-hand.

Best wishes, Tom

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

Before somone else draws the parallel:

Polywell is not extraordinary in the context of physics. It is a clever bit of engineering which may or (more probably) may not work in the sense of providing a viable commercial fusion power source.

Even so if EMC2 claimed it had working Q>5 fusion and wanted money to build 10 X 100MW reactors for an unspecified customer, without any sign of a proof of concept demo, I think (hope?) not many here would start fund-raising.

Which is what Rossi is doing.

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

tomclarke wrote:Before somone else draws the parallel...
Are we talking "hanged, drawn and quartered...."?? :lol: :lol:

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

I have spent [wasted!?] a little time on my Saturday to review the Krivit comments, and its consequentiae.

The issue is clear - Rossi/Levi want nothing to do with a scientific assessment of their device. Krivit went to do an audit, Rossi provided him a press interview.

It is self-evident to me that any attempt to undertake a proper independent audit of the 'E-cat' will be rejected by Rossi et al until there are contracts and plenty of other people's $$$ in their pockets.

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

chrismb wrote:I have spent [wasted!?] a little time on my Saturday to review the Krivit comments, and its consequentiae.

The issue is clear - Rossi/Levi want nothing to do with a scientific assessment of their device. Krivit went to do an audit, Rossi provided him a press interview.

It is self-evident to me that any attempt to undertake a proper independent audit of the 'E-cat' will be rejected by Rossi et al until there are contracts and plenty of other people's $$$ in their pockets.
Are you sure that they have any contracts?
They have not even their own coffee machine.

Kahuna
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Location: CA

Post by Kahuna »

chrismb wrote:I have spent [wasted!?] a little time on my Saturday to review the Krivit comments, and its consequentiae.

The issue is clear - Rossi/Levi want nothing to do with a scientific assessment of their device. Krivit went to do an audit, Rossi provided him a press interview.

It is self-evident to me that any attempt to undertake a proper independent audit of the 'E-cat' will be rejected by Rossi et al until there are contracts and plenty of other people's $$$ in their pockets.
On its face, I think you are right. The only wrinkle is the UoB R&D contract which implicitly would include an E-Cat audit. That's why I think if there are any delays in that contract, it makes things even more suspect. If the contract happens fairly soon and they actually get an E-Cat for independent testing, I think you have four possibilities:

(1) Rossi is counting on UoB incompetence to delay the truth coming out until he has the big money,
(2) UoB is part of a Rossi conspiracy,
(3) Rossi has deluded himself on E-Cat and UoB tests reveal same, or
(4) E-Cat meets claims and passes UoB audit.

I consider 1 & 2 to be unlikely. Number 3 may be my front runner.

I hope Giorgio can shed on light on the UoB contract status through his friend to see if we are likely on this track.

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Kahuna wrote:
chrismb wrote:I have spent [wasted!?] a little time on my Saturday to review the Krivit comments, and its consequentiae.

The issue is clear - Rossi/Levi want nothing to do with a scientific assessment of their device. Krivit went to do an audit, Rossi provided him a press interview.

It is self-evident to me that any attempt to undertake a proper independent audit of the 'E-cat' will be rejected by Rossi et al until there are contracts and plenty of other people's $$$ in their pockets.
On its face, I think you are right. The only wrinkle is the UoB R&D contract which implicitly would include an E-Cat audit. That's why I think if there are any delays in that contract, it makes things even more suspect. If the contract happens fairly soon and they actually get an E-Cat for independent testing, I think you have four possibilities:

(1) Rossi is counting on UoB incompetence to delay the truth coming out until he has the big money,
(2) UoB is part of a Rossi conspiracy,
(3) Rossi has deluded himself on E-Cat and UoB tests reveal same, or
(4) E-Cat meets claims and passes UoB audit.

I consider 1 & 2 to be unlikely. Number 3 may be my front runner.

I hope Giorgio can shed on light on the UoB contract status through his friend to see if we are likely on this track.
conspiracy, spies, Bond... James Bond :)

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

Daniel Passerini has posted the first installment of his trip to Bologna (w/ Rossi, Focardi, Levi, Krivit & operating E-Cat) here (in Italian so Google translate to your preferred language) :

http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/06/qua ... one-5.html

Not much meat yet, but he seems to be covering things in a fair amount of detail.

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Kahuna wrote:Daniel Passerini has posted the first installment of his trip to Bologna (w/ Rossi, Focardi, Levi, Krivit & operating E-Cat) here (in Italian so Google translate to your preferred language) :

http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/06/qua ... one-5.html

Not much meat yet, but he seems to be covering things in a fair amount of detail.
One more 007?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Maui wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote: I see here one children's babble and juggling with some names.
Names of people who or can't correctly put experiment or can’t correctly interpret its results.
How ironic for you to insult the intelligence of this board while you aren't smart enough to figure out how to go somewhere else.
You ought to tone it down son.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Kahuna
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Location: CA

Post by Kahuna »

For those who might be interested, Steve Krivit is offering some pretty extensive comments in answer to questions and criticisms of his Bologna trip and preliminary report on same at his blog here.

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