10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Giorgio
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Postby Giorgio » Wed May 25, 2011 6:34 am

Luzr wrote:For me it was close enough to classify this either as working device OR _very_ elaborated scam. I do not see much room for 'measurement errors' or 'self-delusion' in this case...

Some of the possible measurement errors areas:
1) Water Mass flow is estimated and could be quite different in reality.
2) Water vapour could have a certain % of water, hence not all inlet water is transformed to Steam.
3) with such low flows and pressures, the back pressure of the steam generated inside the chamber could reduce even more the estimated inlet flow.
4) Electric Power supply could be higher than estimated.


Luzr wrote:Still, very elaborated scam is possible. In that case, I am really curious how he did it :)

Yep, so am I.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Wed May 25, 2011 7:08 am

vasimv wrote:If Rossi can produce peltier modules 100W with 20% efficiency in small quantities - he could make demo of self-sustaining power plant with his E-Cat without any problem. As soon as he gets electricity from heat - it can be converted to any needed voltage with 80-95% efficiency.


Well sure. The Navy said only 8 out of 20 modules worked and of those that worked the output was 1 W per module. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Luzr
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Postby Luzr » Wed May 25, 2011 12:14 pm

Giorgio wrote:
Luzr wrote:For me it was close enough to classify this either as working device OR _very_ elaborated scam. I do not see much room for 'measurement errors' or 'self-delusion' in this case...

Some of the possible measurement errors areas:
1) Water Mass flow is estimated and could be quite different in reality.


There could be minor differences, but the signal is too strong.

2) Water vapour could have a certain % of water, hence not all inlet water is transformed to Steam.
3) with such low flows and pressures, the back pressure of the steam generated inside the chamber could reduce even more the estimated inlet flow.


I am ignoring the demonstration producing the steam.

4) Electric Power supply could be higher than estimated.


Sure, but not order of magnitude.

Really, water flow or higher electric power supply - well these might be tools of scam. But as sources of false signal: unlikely.

raphael
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Postby raphael » Wed May 25, 2011 12:34 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: what is your number?
3.1415926 :D
See, I KNEW there was something odd about you! you are a round peg in this square hole!.... :lol: :lol:


An "irrational" selection, to be sure.
"As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden." Chauncey Gardiner

Giorgio
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Postby Giorgio » Wed May 25, 2011 4:28 pm

Luzr wrote:Really, water flow or higher electric power supply - well these might be tools of scam. But as sources of false signal: unlikely.

We will know once we can judge "the signal" as you call it.
For now we have no data, hence no signal.
Right now anything could be, but you should not give anything for granted.

The ball is in Rossi field now. Let's see if he can score a final goal as his homonymous did in 1982, or if he will fail never to be heard of again.
Last edited by Giorgio on Wed May 25, 2011 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Giorgio
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Postby Giorgio » Wed May 25, 2011 4:31 pm

raphael wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: what is your number?
3.1415926 :D
See, I KNEW there was something odd about you! you are a round peg in this square hole!.... :lol: :lol:


An "irrational" selection, to be sure.

And proud to be if the alternative is represented by the likes of you. :roll:

seedload
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Postby seedload » Wed May 25, 2011 5:55 pm

Giorgio wrote:
raphael wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: what is your number?
3.1415926 :D
See, I KNEW there was something odd about you! you are a round peg in this square hole!.... :lol: :lol:


An "irrational" selection, to be sure.

And proud to be if the alternative is represented by the likes of you. :roll:


I think he was joking, as in PI is not a rational number.

I also think your answer was irrational - irrationally high!

BTW, I am changing my answer to i.

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Postby Giorgio » Wed May 25, 2011 6:21 pm

seedload wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
raphael wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: what is your number?
3.1415926 :D
See, I KNEW there was something odd about you! you are a round peg in this square hole!.... :lol: :lol:


An "irrational" selection, to be sure.

And proud to be if the alternative is represented by the likes of you. :roll:


I think he was joking, as in PI is not a rational number.

For the same reason I think he was not joking.


seedload wrote:BTW, I am changing my answer to i.

Good, now we need someone complexed to join us up! :twisted:

Am
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Postby Am » Wed May 25, 2011 7:41 pm

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=497#more-497

New paper by prof. Christos Stremmenos. Sorry if seen already.

Apologies to chrismb btw, was just referring to the big images.

Ivy Matt
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Postby Ivy Matt » Wed May 25, 2011 8:43 pm


I see. I think what chrismb meant is that Rossi has not provided so much as to even formulate a hypothesis on. If that's what he meant, I pretty much agree. We can argue and speculate on a bunch of things, but the fact is, there's a big hole in our knowledge in the center of Rossi's device, and that hole isn't likely to go away any time in the next few months.

...At least, not unless Axil gets really lucky. :wink:
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

Am
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 5:21 pm

Postby Am » Wed May 25, 2011 8:52 pm

Am wrote:http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=497#more-497

New paper by prof. Christos Stremmenos. Sorry if seen already.

Apologies to chrismb btw, was just referring to the big images.


Sorry, title is "A detailed Qualitative Approach to the Cold Fusion Nuclear Reactions of H/Ni"

But let us concentrate on Axil getting really lucky...

rcain
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Postby rcain » Wed May 25, 2011 9:14 pm

Giorgio wrote:
seedload wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
raphael wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: what is your number?
3.1415926 :D
See, I KNEW there was something odd about you! you are a round peg in this square hole!.... :lol: :lol:


An "irrational" selection, to be sure.

And proud to be if the alternative is represented by the likes of you. :roll:


I think he was joking, as in PI is not a rational number.

For the same reason I think he was not joking.


seedload wrote:BTW, I am changing my answer to i.

Good, now we need someone complexed to join us up! :twisted:


... i think i have a spare 'gauge' lying about... does that help...

(ps. Giorgio - have you started drinking whiskey at breakfast with CMB again? ... there seems to be some common socio-pathological effect at work ;) )

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Wed May 25, 2011 9:45 pm

rcain wrote:(ps. Giorgio - have you started drinking whiskey at breakfast with CMB again? ... there seems to be some common socio-pathological effect at work ;) )


Whiskey for breakfast!?!

Rather uncivilised, no?

Once upon a time you might have found me supping the occasional Gammel Dansk while cruising the Kattegat, but I'm not a drinker as such.
Last edited by chrismb on Wed May 25, 2011 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Postby Giorgio » Wed May 25, 2011 9:47 pm

rcain wrote:(ps. Giorgio - have you started drinking whiskey at breakfast with CMB again? ... there seems to be some common socio-pathological effect at work ;) )

Work stress due to incoming tax deadline I presume.
Hopefully I will finish this week and get back to normal. Whatever that means anyhow... ;)

Ivy Matt
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 6:43 am

Postby Ivy Matt » Wed May 25, 2011 10:42 pm

Am wrote:Sorry, title is "A detailed Qualitative Approach to the Cold Fusion Nuclear Reactions of H/Ni"

But let us concentrate on Axil getting really lucky...

I confess, I had pretty much forgotten about the "mini-atom" hypothesis. I'm glad to see Stremmenos doesn't ignore the gamma-ray problem either. His (primary) solution: the nickel absorbs them and emits electrons through the photoelectric effect. It sort of sounds like Stremmenos is intending to test these hypotheses, but I'm not quite certain if I'm interpreting him right:

In any case, a rigorous, in my opinion, theoretical approach for the interpretation of that phenomenon with quantum mechanical terms, would give clear quantitative answers to the above stated models. With my Colleges of theoretical chemistry, we are already planning to face the problem using the time-depended quantum mechanical perturbation theory, bearing in mind the following:

1. The total wave function (of the nucleus and the electrons) of temporarily, non-stable states.
2. The total time-depended Hamiltonian, for temporarily states.
3. Searching for the resonance conditions at that system.

I hope he does, and publicly documents the results.

By the way, I think I found two errors in the paper: "defused" should presumably be "diffused" and "Colleges" should presumably be "colleagues". :P

Note: Stremmenos also mentions nickel as a catalyst that decomposes biatomic hydrogen molecules into single hydrogen atoms, but I assume this is not the same thing as Rossi's catalyst, or he would hardly have allowed the paper to be published.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.


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