10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:52 pm

By the way, Krivit preliminary report is stating pretty much what we have been stating since a few months now:

Yeah, I liked that too.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:34 pm

MSimon wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: OR that he gives not one fig of care what some "scientific hobbyists" on a small fusion related forum think. If his customer wants process steam, just MAYBE he is showing process steam. Gee, what a concept, demonstrate for your customer!

I HATE having to defend this guy against idiotic detractions but such faux fault finding prevents reasonable discussion and I really want reasonable discussion on this.

Please folks, edit your fingertips!

sorry Tom, you just happened to get in the way of a screed. I'll try not to let it happen again.
Uh. So he is only selling to people who need steam and those who need hot water are out of luck?

OR maybe he believes that his customers would be able to draw a perfectly logical conclusion that given a process steam demonstration, they would be able to make hot water too. Is that beyond the folk on this forum? No? Seems reasonable that making process steam is the more impressive commercial demo.

Then he wrote: I suppose it is possible. Maybe the hot water market is not big enough.

Seriously K. This is not up to your usual standards.

Pot... kettle?

kurt9 · Post by **kurt9** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:46 pm

Steve Krivit's report is not encouraging at all and I take do take him seriously. He believes the phenomenon (LENR) is real, but is very hard-headed about purported demonstrations of the effect and has discredited several "cold fusion" companies in the past.

I guess we all have to wait and see come this November.

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:59 pm

Wow, it appears that Krivit has burned all his bridges in Italy. Here is Dr. Levi's response to his post:

Dear Mr. Krivit

Carefully I have read your preliminary report on your travel to Bologna .
Your report Clearly Demonstrates That You have not understood anything of what you have and what we have seen you Explained.
First of all the story about the steam.
As the signature in my email says I got a PhD in Physics Years Ago.This Means That I have totally Understood the difference Between residual water in steam as fraction of the mass or volume.
As I have unsuccessfully tried to explain you:
1) The plots are showing you where you can find well known and Them in Any manual of physical chemistry.
When You apply the measure the quantity of steam present as% of VOLUME.

2) As I have told you many times, Dr. Galantini, the expert chemist That Was in charge, have done to measure as percent of MASS.

As Professor Zanchini has told you the Same Day We Met, one of the informations you have crutial omitted from your preliminary report, fraction of water in the steam, Measured by MASS as we have done, would reduce the amount of energy in a Measured linear way.

So our analysis and our calculation is correct.

Because you:
Part of You Had omitted information, insulted me (and my University) Trying to say that I'm not prepared in my field, tried (just tried) to scare me and put me under psychological pressure in order to know to Obtain undisclosed date,
I Will not Send You Any Other information.

Regards,
Dr. G. Levi

http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/06/qua ... one-3.html

This may be just a pretense for Levi not giving data he either did not have or which was sub-standard in some way. That would be a red flag. OTOH, I think Krivit was a little shortsighted to publish what he did before he found out if he could get the data. IMO that was not too smart a move for a guy who just traveled half way around the world to get a story.

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:30 pm

If it wasn't embarrassing it'd be funny.

... there again, it might well be both!!

tomclarke · Post by **tomclarke** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:53 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
tomclarke wrote: He knows that steam out is inherently flaky.

He is clearly able to do a proper demo, with flow rate higher and no steam.

If he does not do this we must conclude that either he can't (get positive results) or he wants everyone examining his stuff to think it does not work.
OR that he gives not one fig of care what some "scientific hobbyists" on a small fusion related forum think. If his customer wants process steam, just MAYBE he is showing process steam. Gee, what a concept, demonstrate for your customer!

I HATE having to defend this guy against idiotic detractions but such faux fault finding prevents reasonable discussion and I really want reasonable discussion on this.

Please folks, edit your fingertips!

sorry Tom, you just happened to get in the way of a screed. I'll try not to let it happen again.

I almost added the "or he does not want people to know it works" category.

But if so it makes little difference - because there is still nothing for us to debate.

Carl White · Post by **Carl White** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:04 pm

seedload wrote:Rossi Brother's Tires huh? http://www.fllirossi-tyre.com/
I guess I am the only one concerned about why there are even all of these 'companies' in the first place.

Looking at the website, the address is listed as 6-A. Possibly a completely different company and a coincidence of names.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:10 pm

I think Levi was just looking for an excuse to not send Krivit this information. If he really had something, he would show it to proof what he is saying.

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:26 pm

Alan Fletcher write up of how to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/alan-f ... prove.html

Worth a look IMO

breakaway · Post by **breakaway** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:28 pm

You may be right Skipjack, however, Krivit did make Levi look bad. Wouldn't you be ticked.

Another way to see it is Levi doesn't want Krivit any glory in any announcement after analyzing the data. It is their data, they should be the ones to release any analysis from the data. I do not think they are prepared to do that until they get to do the research on the e-cat. Georgio may know more about the research agreement and when it starts after he meets his friend.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:59 pm

If I were Rossi I wouldn't be pleased with what Krivit wrote either.

Defkalion have their press conference on June 23rd, that is another opportunity to do things right. I have already emailed them suggesting that they have the four E-Cats in series as an on-going demo, producing lots of hot water, if they want to get good press.

TallDave · Post by **TallDave** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:10 pm

Kahuna wrote:Alan Fletcher write up of how to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/alan-f ... prove.html

Worth a look IMO

I don't like it. I can't necessarily explain a magician's tricks even if I know how every other magician does theirs. It doesn't mean they actually have supernatural abilities.

I'll believe in Rossi's device when I see it actually powering something substantial for a year or so.

I note the Blacklightpower scam seems to be winding down, as most predicted. http://www.blacklightpower.com/press.shtml As best I can tell they were not able to produce the 750 MW as promised, and new customers are not lining up. I hope Rossi is on firmer theoretical footing.

Maui · Post by **Maui** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:12 pm

Kahuna wrote:Wow, it appears that Krivit has burned all his bridges in Italy.

I don't care how offensive you take someone's questions to be, this response is not at all the response you expect from any professional, let alone a research scientist.

Beyond that, the fact that he is refusing to provide any more information in response to being asked critical questions should set all all kinds of alarms. (as if alarms were not already blaring).

kurt9 · Post by **kurt9** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:46 pm

I agree with TallDave's comments on NextBigFuture. I will believe this technology is real once there have been some generators working in the marketplace for a year or so and the factory manufacturing the generators is in full production. Until then, anything anyone says is pure speculation.

I do tend to lean towards Krivit, even though I think he was unwise to make his comments until he had the data from Dr. Levi. I've followed Krivit's blog and newsletter over the past few years. He seems skeptical and level-headed for someone who says he believes in the phenomenon.

RaneesUm · Post by **RaneesUm** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:17 pm

From Rossi's Journal of Nuclear Physics blog:

Craig
June 16th, 2011 at 10:12 PM
Dear Mr Rossi,

Can you respond to the recent assertions by Steven B Krivit that the method in which the steam may have been measured previously is potentially giving incorrect measurements of the power capability of the e-cat.

Krivit says in his blog post.

“I discussed the crucial difference in steam enthalpy calculations by mass versus by volume with Levi on Wednesday afternoon. Based on his initial response, I could not be sure if he had previously understood the potential impact.”

I am hoping you can assure us that his concerns are invalid.

Best regards,

Craig

Dear Craig:
Mr Krivit has understood nothing of what he saw, from what I have read in his ridiculous report… This guy has seen for half an hour an E-Cat in the factory where we make many tests, made some questions to Prof. Levi, Prof. Focardi and me. Evidently has understood nothing, perhaps for the short time we gave him, also because we have to work: maybe he is angry because we had to send him away from the closed boxes and because we had to say good bye shortly because we have to work. Prof. Levi has explained very well to him how the measures have been made and the importance of the issue. He has explained very well that the percentage of uncondensed water in the steam has been measured in weight (in volume is impossible, for various reasons), and he also got confirmation of this from a specialist from whom he has taken independent counsel. Nevertheless, he has understood nothing, or wanted not to understand, for reasons he better knows. Our tests have been performed by Physics Professors, who know how to make measures , and I am measuring the performance every day on 300 reactors.
In any case we will start our 1 MW plant in october and we will see how it works. Of course I assure his considerations are invalid, but I want to say more: our products on the market will confirm this. Probably this journalist has been sent by someone that wants to dwarf our work. He also tried to blackmail prof. Levi, and Levi already has given to his attorney due information .
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi
June 17th, 2011 at 4:54 AM
Dear Roger Barker:
Please read the answer I gave to Craig:
AGAIN : WE MADE THE MEASUREMENT OF THE WATER IN WEIGHT !!!!!!
AND WE EXPLAINED THIS TO KRIVIT VERY WELL!!!!!
AND HE GOT CONFIRMATION OF THIS FROM AN INDEPENDENT PROFESSOR HE CONTACTED !!!!!
NOBODY MAKES THIS KIND OF MEASUREMENT IN VOLUME, BECAUSE IT IS A NONSENSE !!!!!
KRIVIT SAID ” I HAVE UNDERSTOOD” WHEN I TOLD THIS DURING THE INTERVIEW.
I HAVE MANY WITNESSES OF WHAT ABOVE ENCLOSED THE PROF. HE CONTACTED TO GET INDEPENDENT COUNSEL !!!!!
BUT HE REPORTED THAT WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM: WE. PHYSICS PROFESSORS OF CERN, UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA, UNIVERSITY OF UPPSALA, UNIVERSITY OF STOCKOLM, WHO MADE THE TESTS!!!!! AND HE COMES HERE TO TEACH US PHYSICS!!!!!!
HE CAME TO US SMILING, VERY FRIENDLY, ACCEPTED TO BE INVITED TO GET LUNCH, ACCEPTED TAXI REIMBURSEMENT, MADE FAIR QUESTIONS, GOT PRECISE ANSWERS, AND NOW HE WRITES TOTALLY FALSE THINGS:
THIS IS A SNAKE, NOT A JOURNALIST, AND I WOULD LIKE VERY MUCH LIKE TO KNOW WHO SENT HIM (I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA, THOUGH, SINCE HE UNADVERTEDLY GAVE US A CLUE).
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi
June 17th, 2011 at 4:38 AM