10KW LENR Demonstrator?

[ndelta]

Ok, I am sorry to interrupt in the middle of this thread. I don't think I have the kind of background that most other posters have so let me know if my questions have been answered in any previous page.

If the amount of steam has that has been coming out of the output has been called in question because the flow coming out of the output doesn't look like 7 l/hr then where does the water go? Was the pump examined? Is he actually pumping 7 l/hr into it? Did Krivit (or anyone) look at the pump?

Very confused.

[sparkyy0007]

You know Joseph, I don't really care one way or another.
I just want to know the truth.

That is truth when I am saying - this field interaction of some metals (Ni, V, Pd, Ti, La and other rare metals, intermetalids) with hydrogen has been researched many years ago.
Purpose of those researches is the creation of advanced materials for hydrogen storages and heat storages.
Regardless of nature (nuclear or chemical) the energy balance of those reaction are known very well and I doubt that you with Mr.Kite will discover any novelty.
One of known for me researchers was Philips (Eindhoven) with their advanced lab facilities and very skilled staff. Would this information not enough for you?

I would ask that you post the references, but I think it's out of scope for this discussion.
Please pm me with references and I will have a look.

[sparkyy0007]

Ok, I am sorry to interrupt in the middle of this thread. I don't think I have the kind of background that most other posters have so let me know if my questions have been answered in any previous page.

If the amount of steam has that has been coming out of the output has been called in question because the flow coming out of the output doesn't look like 7 l/hr then where does the water go? Was the pump examined? Is he actually pumping 7 l/hr into it? Did Krivit (or anyone) look at the pump?

Very confused.

Joseph Chikva wrote:

sparkyy0007 wrote:
Rossi crunches the numbers for the Krivit demo.

http://youtu.be/YrTz5Bq6dsA

And what?
All these my little 13 years old son will learn next year in the school.
And this is very trivial.
Non-trivial is as I mentioned:
• Water flow in demo/experiment was not shown
• Was not shown also was jacket be empty before the beginning or no
• Was not shown consumption of reactants
• Was not introduced analyzes of reaction products

I think that about sums it up.

[Joseph Chikva]

Ok, I am sorry to interrupt in the middle of this thread. I don't think I have the kind of background that most other posters have so let me know if my questions have been answered in any previous page.

If the amount of steam has that has been coming out of the output has been called in question because the flow coming out of the output doesn't look like 7 l/hr then where does the water go? Was the pump examined? Is he actually pumping 7 l/hr into it? Did Krivit (or anyone) look at the pump?

Very confused.

Rossi uses flowing cooling system in which water input (by mass and not by volume) should be equal to steam output. As he uses jacketed pressure vessel as reactor with electric heaters in it.
The problem that there is not included flow-meter. So we should believe Rossi's claim when he talks about flow 7 kg/h.

The second doubt is as we do not know was jacket be full or empty prior the beginning of experiment. As only about 500W of power enough for claimed water flow for increasing temperature to up to boiling point. As Rossi has 750W even without any exothermic reaction some 100 Celsius deg water would slowly fill jacket and remaining 250W would produce some steam.
So, experiment (or demo as Mr. Kite calls that) was not put correctly and can not provide doubtless data.

[sparkyy0007]

I was thinking more into your good question.
I think the evidence of the condensate spewing into the pail means saturated water (that was never steam) coming from the reactor along with condensate if the system was at equilibrium.

Any steam experts out there??

Not an expert but I've dealt with naval reactors and their steam systems for over 8 years now.

The condensate in the steam could very well be moisture carryover. The design of eCAT (at least from what I can see) includes a horizontal steam generator. You're bound to get moisture carryover even at lower flow rates.

So "carry over" ends up as the same thing, saturated water (not steam) leaving the
reactor but contributing to the reported flow.
http://www.google.ca/#sclient=psy&hl=en ... 17&bih=900

[Joseph Chikva]

You know Joseph, I don't really care one way or another.
I just want to know the truth.

That is truth when I am saying - this field interaction of some metals (Ni, V, Pd, Ti, La and other rare metals, intermetalids) with hydrogen has been researched many years ago.
Purpose of those researches is the creation of advanced materials for hydrogen storages and heat storages.
Regardless of nature (nuclear or chemical) the energy balance of those reaction are known very well and I doubt that you with Mr.Kite will discover any novelty.
One of known for me researchers was Philips (Eindhoven) with their advanced lab facilities and very skilled staff. Would this information not enough for you?

I would ask that you post the references, but I think it's out of scope for this discussion.
Please pm me with references and I will have a look.

I have for example a book: "MATERIALS SCIENCE IN ENERGY TECHNOLOGY" G.G.Libowitz, M.S.Whittingham, 1979

also somewhere in this thread I have quoted a link in which shown that nickel hydride is considered for US Army for weapon power supply. And there is chemical exothermic reaction. I couldnot find that link now. Only remember that Georgio saw that.

Also you can simply Google that. As Nickel Hydride is widely used for rechargeable batteries. And for example in well know Energizer battery.

[ndelta]

The problem that there is not included flow-meter. So we should believe Rossi's claim when he talks about flow 7 kg/h.

I think you meant NOT believe or at least have a question mark at the end. Either way, I did not know that his water flow is not metered and would agree that that is a problem. A big one.

[Joseph Chikva]

The problem that there is not included flow-meter. So we should believe Rossi's claim when he talks about flow 7 kg/h.

I think you meant NOT believe or at least have a question mark at the end. Either way, I did not know that his water flow is not metered and would agree that that is a problem. A big one.

People who hope that in those conditions nuclear reaction is possible believe Rossi. I do not regardless to should I believe or not should.

Fact is the one - he did not provide doubtless data.
And only on base of data of existence of anomalous energy source the nature of which can not be explained by chemical reaction we can assume that are faced with nuclear. As Nickel Hydriding chemical reaction is exothermic.

[sparkyy0007]

I have for example a book: "MATERIALS SCIENCE IN ENERGY TECHNOLOGY" G.G.Libowitz, M.S.Whittingham, 1979

also somewhere in this thread I have quoted a link in which shown that nickel hydride is considered for US Army for weapon power supply. And there is chemical exothermic reaction. I couldnot find that link now. Only remember that Georgio saw that.

Also you can simply Google that. As Nickel Hydride is widely used for rechargeable batteries. And for example in well know Energizer battery.

Ok, I googled Nickel Hydride and batteries everywhere (ebay has some great deals on 12 pack AAA's by the way)
I don't want to by a book, What am I looking for exactly??

Are you saying that if the claimed power (of course not on the krivit demo) if it turns out to be real,
of 5000W for hours/days with 50cc volume can be explained by a nickel hydride system of some sort?
If this is true, Rossi will still become rich to be sure.

[fusionfan]

Regarding the flow rate of steam output:

From here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-8QdVwY98E

At around 2:40, you can see that he is pumping water from a large jug, which is exposed and is in plain sight. At one point in the video, I believe he says that the pumping rate is documented by weighing the jug at certain time intervals. Lot's of people have seen this system run for many hours. The e-cat jacket has a volume that can't be much more than 2 L. Running the e-cat for more than 10-15 min would eliminate any possibility of jacket filling and non-steady-state conditions.

If Rossi is pumping in 7 kg/hour of water into the jacket, then 7 kg/hour of steam must be coming out, based on mass balance, unless there is an ever-enlarging puddle of water under the table. This also is why the argument of whether "volume" or "mass" of steam coming out was measured is irrelevant. You don't need any measurement of steam coming out. You only need to weigh the water inflow jug at 12 noon, and then weigh it again (or simply look at it, and see if there is 7 L less water in the jug) 1 hour later, at 1 PM.

People are trying to judge the amount of steam coming out by the appearance of steam exiting the drain line, comparing it to their tea kettles, etc. As pointed out, dry steam is almost invisible.

I don't think that the numerous, highly qualified people who have looked at this would be unable to detect some sort of trickery in terms of the water inflow or steam outflow rates. A high school kid could check this part of the apparatus.

Frankly, the repeated posting of "skeptics" on this and other threads is becoming tiring, as the arguments against the e-cat become ever more ridiculous.

[chrismb]

People are trying to judge the amount of steam coming out by the appearance of steam exiting the drain line, comparing it to their tea kettles, etc. As pointed out, dry steam is almost invisible.

The purpose of my video was to see what a quantity of steam-bearing gas looks like at 25g/min.

If that invisible gas is coing out at 25g/min (3l/s), how do you account for this differential flow-rate of visible gas and invisible gas? Do they exit the tube at different speeds? Please explain this, if this is your contention.

[chrismb]

Frankly, the repeated posting of "skeptics" on this and other threads is becoming tiring, as the arguments against the e-cat become ever more ridiculous.

I tell you, watching that ridiculous trickle of steam condesate wafting out of the end of the tube is what is ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is Rossi saying there is no condensation, yet takes clear and obvious steps to rid the pipe of water before pulling it out of the wall.

What is ridiculous is the nytek video where you can clearly hear condesate bubbling away inside the pipe.

What is ridiculous is the measurement (supposedly) of JUST 100C at one end of a 4m pipe, yet Rossi claims it is still 100C and has lost no heat by the end of the pipe! A perfectly insulated pipe, eh!?

[chrismb]

I don't think that the numerous, highly qualified people who have looked at this would be unable to detect some sort of trickery in terms of the water inflow or steam outflow rates. A high school kid could check this part of the apparatus.

Krivit did exactly this, called the bluff and asked to see original data, and in return he got fully CAPITALISED messages from Rossi full of !!!!!!!!!!'s. Does this not ring a single bell of concern for you!?

This is now beyond screwy, and we will never know if there was more to this H+Ni reaction because the video makes it 6-sigma confident that Rossi is a faker, and his downfall will spell the downfall of the E-cat [whether or not it worked as he claimed].

You can't afford to act like a snake-oil vendor when you are selling something that looks like snake oil!!

[Joseph Chikva]

I have for example a book: "MATERIALS SCIENCE IN ENERGY TECHNOLOGY" G.G.Libowitz, M.S.Whittingham, 1979

also somewhere in this thread I have quoted a link in which shown that nickel hydride is considered for US Army for weapon power supply. And there is chemical exothermic reaction. I couldnot find that link now. Only remember that Georgio saw that.

Also you can simply Google that. As Nickel Hydride is widely used for rechargeable batteries. And for example in well know Energizer battery.

Ok, I googled Nickel Hydride and batteries everywhere (ebay has some great deals on 12 pack AAA's by the way)
I don't want to by a book, What am I looking for exactly??

Are you saying that if the claimed power (of course not on the krivit demo) if it turns out to be real,
of 5000W for hours/days with 50cc volume can be explained by a nickel hydride system of some sort?
If this is true, Rossi will still become rich to be sure.

• I am not sure in claimed 5000W. See my guess about empty jacket. See my doubt about flow-meter.
• From what you got 50cc volume?
• Chemical reactions can produce any power certainly depending on scaling. At least nickel hydriding reaction is enough powerful for to be considered for US Army's some robotized weapon power supply.

[Joseph Chikva]

The e-cat jacket has a volume that can't be much more than 2 L.

Running the e-cat for more than 10-15 min would eliminate any possibility of jacket filling and non-steady-state conditions.

2L=2000ml
Claimed water flow 1.95 ml/s, real flow unknown.

10-15min or a little longer Rossi can show that his device produces 5kW at the same time producing depending on energy release of chemical reaction only 1-2kW from which 750W is power input.

I talk about experiment purity. And that is not pure as involved people or have no skill, or purposely to say lie. That's all. "Many people saw", but I did not.

Thanks for discussion.