Kahuna,
I haven't seen anything to suggest more than that E-Cats will be made available to the two Swedish Universities. Not even when this will happen.
I hope they use adequate security.
A new web site just for the E-Cat has been started that may make searching for news easier.
http://www.e-catworld.com/
10KW LENR Demonstrator?
I've just looked on this website;
I thought that we have been told
a) the reaction rate is a function of the heater input, and scales to that input temp, and
b) it has run with the hydrogen completely vented to 'off' [supposedly residual H in the 'catalyst']
c) it's all down to clever nano-tech
If so, then the above quote runs directly contrary to a and b, because the quote implies cooling is needed to control it, else no need for 'emergency cooling' [whereas previous answers have said all that is needed is to turn off the external heating], and if it were possible to turn off the hydrogen to stop the reaction, then why hasn't that operation turned it off before!?!
If the thing melts, then does it still work? Is it some super never-before-known nano-tech that re-constructs itself during solidification from liquidus?
My bullshyte detector has started clicking again, big time!!Q: What happens if by some defect the E-Cat during operation is not longer cooled by the water sourrounding it? How much would the temperature of the metal rise? Will the nuclear reaction stop due to high temperatures or will it be enhanced? In this case the E-Cat could melt. Is there a potential danger?
A:1- we have a secondary emergency cooling system
2- Confidential
3- With temperature above the set the reactor is automatically stopped
4- We melt many times , for testing reasons, the E-Cats. No danger at all, we do not use radioactive materials and we do not leave radioactive waste. During the melting hydrogen intrinsecally burns, without hydrogen no reaction occurs.
I thought that we have been told
a) the reaction rate is a function of the heater input, and scales to that input temp, and
b) it has run with the hydrogen completely vented to 'off' [supposedly residual H in the 'catalyst']
c) it's all down to clever nano-tech
If so, then the above quote runs directly contrary to a and b, because the quote implies cooling is needed to control it, else no need for 'emergency cooling' [whereas previous answers have said all that is needed is to turn off the external heating], and if it were possible to turn off the hydrogen to stop the reaction, then why hasn't that operation turned it off before!?!
If the thing melts, then does it still work? Is it some super never-before-known nano-tech that re-constructs itself during solidification from liquidus?
Could it be that Rossi was careless with his wording, but did not mean what you think he means?chrismb wrote:If so, then the above quote runs directly contrary to a and b, because the quote implies cooling is needed to control it, else no need for 'emergency cooling' [whereas previous answers have said all that is needed is to turn off the external heating], and if it were possible to turn off the hydrogen to stop the reaction, then why hasn't that operation turned it off before!?!
Perhaps he said, "turn off the heat" and implied, "but leave the water flowing"? (Or, meant to imply it and carelessly did not clarify that point.)
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."
You act as if this is the first time he has tested it. Certainly the deniers had no qualms dismissing the first test. Granted, apparently he will be the one in control this time rather than Rossi, but the deniers have made it clear they are impressed by protocol (not names).Axil wrote:Giving your cold fusion reactor to Hanno Essén for unrestricted testing is like giving an airplane to Chuck Yager for flight testing; I will be interesting in how the deniers react to the Hanno Essén report.
From Rossi Q&A April 21, 2011
We have been told as follows:
The reaction rate is a function of the heater input, and scales to that input temperature.
There are two sources of heat in the Cat-E
1 – The heat produced by the reaction. The production of this heat increases with temperature so a meltdown is possible. This heat must be kept below a threshold temperature to avoid a meltdown.
2 – Heat from the internal heater. This heat is derived from a resistive electric element in the center of the reaction chamber. This resistive element injects heat into the hydrogen gas that lies between the resistive element and the walls of the reaction chamber which is coated with a layer of depleted nickel oxide powder. Since the hydrogen envelop is pressurized and thick, all heat transfer from the resistive element to the reactor walls are carried by the hydrogen envelope by heat conduction by the hydrogen gas. Heat transfer by infrared radiation does not occur.
“With temperature above the set the reactor is automatically stopped”
The temperature at the surface of the reaction vessel is monitored by a thermal sensor connected to the control box. When this surface temperature detects a rise above a set limit, the electric power that drives the internal resistive heater is first reduced as the temperature rises and then it is completely shut off as the temperature continues to rise.
If the temperature continues to rise above another set point, the control box releases the hydrogen gas into the water loop piping though the controlled opening of an electrically controlled valve. This action vents excess heat to the outside environment and serves to depress the reaction.
“How much would the temperature of the metal rise?”
The nickel oxide powder will have a substantial amount of hydrogen stored in the lattice interstices at the surface of the nickel oxide powder where the oxygen has been depleted by the erosive action of hydrogen impingement at the surface or into the surface to some depth of the powder.
When the heat sink of the water coolant is removed, this nuclear reaction in the lattice interstices will continue until the temperature of at the surface of the powder reaches the melting point of nickel. The lattice interstices will begin to close as nickel migrate to these lattice interstices sites displacing the absorbed hydrogen gas.
“Will the nuclear reaction stop due to high temperatures or will it be enhanced?”
With some number of these heat producing sites disabled, the temperature at the surface of the reaction vessel will stabilize and slowly begin to fall.
After shutdown, the nickel oxide powder may still be operable since new lattice interstices may replace the ones that had been destroyed by the overheating. Clearly, too many of overheating episodes will destroy the activity of the nickel oxide powder.
“In this case the E-Cat could melt. Is there a potential danger?”
“We melt many times, for testing reasons, the E-Cats. No danger at all, we do not use radioactive materials and we do not leave radioactive waste. During the melting hydrogen intrinsecally burns, without hydrogen no reaction occurs.”
Rossi has tested multiple occurrences of reaction vessel overheating to determine the robustness of the failsafe reaction shutdown process. The structure of the reactor does not exceed overheating tolerances.
Unlike a standard nuclear reactor, no radioactive isotopes are included in the catalytic powder.
This leaves open the possibility for the use of thorium in the internal heater. Thorium has been used in vacuum tubes with no radiation danger for many years.
Q: What happens if by some defect the E-Cat during operation is not longer cooled by the water sourrounding it? How much would the temperature of the metal rise? Will the nuclear reaction stop due to high temperatures or will it be enhanced? In this case the E-Cat could melt. Is there a potential danger?
A:1- we have a secondary emergency cooling system
2- Confidential
3- With temperature above the set the reactor is automatically stopped
4- We melt many times , for testing reasons, the E-Cats. No danger at all, we do not use radioactive materials and we do not leave radioactive waste. During the melting hydrogen intrinsecally burns, without hydrogen no reaction occurs.
We have been told as follows:
The reaction rate is a function of the heater input, and scales to that input temperature.
There are two sources of heat in the Cat-E
1 – The heat produced by the reaction. The production of this heat increases with temperature so a meltdown is possible. This heat must be kept below a threshold temperature to avoid a meltdown.
2 – Heat from the internal heater. This heat is derived from a resistive electric element in the center of the reaction chamber. This resistive element injects heat into the hydrogen gas that lies between the resistive element and the walls of the reaction chamber which is coated with a layer of depleted nickel oxide powder. Since the hydrogen envelop is pressurized and thick, all heat transfer from the resistive element to the reactor walls are carried by the hydrogen envelope by heat conduction by the hydrogen gas. Heat transfer by infrared radiation does not occur.
“With temperature above the set the reactor is automatically stopped”
The temperature at the surface of the reaction vessel is monitored by a thermal sensor connected to the control box. When this surface temperature detects a rise above a set limit, the electric power that drives the internal resistive heater is first reduced as the temperature rises and then it is completely shut off as the temperature continues to rise.
If the temperature continues to rise above another set point, the control box releases the hydrogen gas into the water loop piping though the controlled opening of an electrically controlled valve. This action vents excess heat to the outside environment and serves to depress the reaction.
“How much would the temperature of the metal rise?”
The nickel oxide powder will have a substantial amount of hydrogen stored in the lattice interstices at the surface of the nickel oxide powder where the oxygen has been depleted by the erosive action of hydrogen impingement at the surface or into the surface to some depth of the powder.
When the heat sink of the water coolant is removed, this nuclear reaction in the lattice interstices will continue until the temperature of at the surface of the powder reaches the melting point of nickel. The lattice interstices will begin to close as nickel migrate to these lattice interstices sites displacing the absorbed hydrogen gas.
“Will the nuclear reaction stop due to high temperatures or will it be enhanced?”
With some number of these heat producing sites disabled, the temperature at the surface of the reaction vessel will stabilize and slowly begin to fall.
After shutdown, the nickel oxide powder may still be operable since new lattice interstices may replace the ones that had been destroyed by the overheating. Clearly, too many of overheating episodes will destroy the activity of the nickel oxide powder.
“In this case the E-Cat could melt. Is there a potential danger?”
“We melt many times, for testing reasons, the E-Cats. No danger at all, we do not use radioactive materials and we do not leave radioactive waste. During the melting hydrogen intrinsecally burns, without hydrogen no reaction occurs.”
Rossi has tested multiple occurrences of reaction vessel overheating to determine the robustness of the failsafe reaction shutdown process. The structure of the reactor does not exceed overheating tolerances.
Unlike a standard nuclear reactor, no radioactive isotopes are included in the catalytic powder.
This leaves open the possibility for the use of thorium in the internal heater. Thorium has been used in vacuum tubes with no radiation danger for many years.
According to Daniele Passerini (22passi), who knows some inside information he is not allowed to divulge right now, something quite important happened of a positive nature during the test conducted between 18 April and 21 April and apparently not just a simple test; we'll know more in about two weeks, it seems. That is, an important step further for the scientific acceptance of the E-Cat. A hint was peer review.Kahuna wrote:Axil,
I assume that is what Rossi was referring to when he said: "you will have very soon a report about the same test repeated, with the flow controlled in an 'idiot-proof' system" on 4/20.
Do you have a link (reference) regarding the new Hanno Essén test and forthcoming report?
Thanks Axil, standing by...Axil wrote:According to Daniele Passerini (22passi), who knows some inside information he is not allowed to divulge right now, something quite important happened of a positive nature during the test conducted between 18 April and 21 April and apparently not just a simple test; we'll know more in about two weeks, it seems. That is, an important step further for the scientific acceptance of the E-Cat. A hint was peer review.Kahuna wrote:Axil,
I assume that is what Rossi was referring to when he said: "you will have very soon a report about the same test repeated, with the flow controlled in an 'idiot-proof' system" on 4/20.
Do you have a link (reference) regarding the new Hanno Essén test and forthcoming report?
So busy?
[quote="parallel"]I see that Dr. Rossi says he will be too busy working on the new 1 MW plant to do anything else.
Mr. Rossi is so busy, so busy ... that he finds couple hours every day (including weekends) to manage his blog, to read all new messages, and to post dozen comments to them.
Mr. Rossi is so busy, so busy ... that he finds couple hours every day (including weekends) to manage his blog, to read all new messages, and to post dozen comments to them.
http://energycatalyzer.blogspot.com/201 ... psala.html
MONDAY, APRIL 25, 2011
Andrea Rossi: "No E-Cat test at Uppsala and Stockholm, before start-up of power-plant in October"
Last weeks PROMISING MESSAGE, that Rossi would bring the E-Cat technology for further tests to two Swedish universities got a lot attention.Several questions about this issue on his blog has been responded with a bit cloudy answers from Rossi. According to Rossi, it seems that this evaluation will not take place before late October, or November, after the announced start-up of the promised power plant.
Excerpts from JOURNAL OF NUCLEAR SCIENCE:
"Jed Rothwell asked
I have heard that the tests at Uppsala and Stockolm Universities will begin this week. Is that so? That’s great!
Andrea Rossi replied
Dear Jed Rothwell:
Not true, before the start up of my 1 MW plant I will have time for nothing.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
V. Godbole asked
Respected Andrea
What I sugest is that as you produce your basic 10 kW modules you have to test each one of them individually before joining them into the larger 1 MW device. Let open-minded experts (physicists, nuclear and power engineers) in small new groups watch those factory-internal tests and ask questions – often new questions and doubts and also valuable feedbacks turn up. This will help clarify and pacify the situation even before October 2011, which is still very far away.
I know that you must be working very hard – but with some good organizational help it should be efficiently possible.
Andrea Rossi replied
Dear Mr Godbole:
I assure you that we are able to do our work. We do not need “experts” that come to teach us to do our profession. Most likely they would come to make industrial espionage. We have certified experts that make the safety tests and the suggestion to test every module is obvious. Thank you anyway for your attention,
Warm regards,
A.R."
It looks like we’ll all be wondering until October or November.
MONDAY, APRIL 25, 2011
Andrea Rossi: "No E-Cat test at Uppsala and Stockholm, before start-up of power-plant in October"
Last weeks PROMISING MESSAGE, that Rossi would bring the E-Cat technology for further tests to two Swedish universities got a lot attention.Several questions about this issue on his blog has been responded with a bit cloudy answers from Rossi. According to Rossi, it seems that this evaluation will not take place before late October, or November, after the announced start-up of the promised power plant.
Excerpts from JOURNAL OF NUCLEAR SCIENCE:
"Jed Rothwell asked
I have heard that the tests at Uppsala and Stockolm Universities will begin this week. Is that so? That’s great!
Andrea Rossi replied
Dear Jed Rothwell:
Not true, before the start up of my 1 MW plant I will have time for nothing.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
V. Godbole asked
Respected Andrea
What I sugest is that as you produce your basic 10 kW modules you have to test each one of them individually before joining them into the larger 1 MW device. Let open-minded experts (physicists, nuclear and power engineers) in small new groups watch those factory-internal tests and ask questions – often new questions and doubts and also valuable feedbacks turn up. This will help clarify and pacify the situation even before October 2011, which is still very far away.
I know that you must be working very hard – but with some good organizational help it should be efficiently possible.
Andrea Rossi replied
Dear Mr Godbole:
I assure you that we are able to do our work. We do not need “experts” that come to teach us to do our profession. Most likely they would come to make industrial espionage. We have certified experts that make the safety tests and the suggestion to test every module is obvious. Thank you anyway for your attention,
Warm regards,
A.R."
It looks like we’ll all be wondering until October or November.
From Rossi's blog today:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.c ... 3#commentsQUESTION: I would like to know if Dr. Hanno Essen and/or Dr. Sven Kullander have carried out further tests to your E-Cat device after the test conducted on March 29 in Bologna (if i remember well) or else the approximate date that those further tests are expected to happen.
In addition I would also like to know the aproximate date on which they will publish a report based on those tests.
ANSWER: Prof Sven Kullander and Orof. Hanno Essèn will test in Sweden will make more tests with our E-Cat in Sweden within this year.