Mach Effect progress

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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djolds1
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:03 am

Post by djolds1 »

ladajo wrote:And all this fun because I brought up Ballard's unpublicized neolithic find in the Dardenelles. :?
As I read some of the above, it all does seem to fit.
Black Sea flood, folks relocate, DNA tracers, Farming Tech Tracers, Language Tracers, Culture Tracers, folk legend tracers...interesting stuff for sure.
What better way to spend some time while we wait to hear from Paul or Jim on this thread.
There are three distinct variations on flood myths in Europe and Near Asia:

1) The Greek/Balkan Peninsula Story;
2) The Mesopotamian/Babylonian Story - the Biblical Flood account is a variation of this;
3) The Central Asian Steppes Story.

Each major variant is very different in narrative, participants and additional details from the other two. The three have historically been counted as individually unique and unrelated by scholars. But when you notice those three regions all intersect at one place, things start to make a bit more sense.

I first ran across the three variations while perusing the library of the University of Delaware in the late '80s. I ran across the Black Sea inundation of 5600BC almost 15 years later.
krenshala wrote:
GIThruster wrote:Ignorance couched in skepticism needs to take a long walk off a short peer.
Personally, I don't have a problem with ignorance couched in skepticism.

Remember the difference between ignorant and stupid -- ignorant can learn ...
When I was a teenager, I tried to make that point with a librarian at my school.

Suffice to say that the adult was... unreceptive... to the subtlety of analysis. :lol:
Vae Victis

paulmarch
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:06 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX USA

Post by paulmarch »

ladajo wrote:And all this fun because I brought up Ballard's unpublicized neolithic find in the Dardenelles. :?
As I read some of the above, it all does seem to fit.
Black Sea flood, folks relocate, DNA tracers, Farming Tech Tracers, Language Tracers, Culture Tracers, folk legend tracers...interesting stuff for sure.
What better way to spend some time while we wait to hear from Paul or Jim on this thread.
Jim is very unlikely to post here, but I have been posting some of Jim's SRT/GRT centric comments on the true meaning of the SRT 4-force over at NASASpaceFlight.com's Advanced Concept page in response to a Dr. Fierro. Needless to say that Jim is holding his own and coming off the winner in that discussion.

In the meanwhile, Jim and a new graduate student helper at CSUF are resurrecting Jim's old 2002 IIT experiment that very nicely demonstrated the M-E wormhole term by losing ~1.2% of its weight when driven at 66.6 kHz, ~400 W-p, which was at the mechanical resonant frequency of the PZT stack used in this experiment. It's one of my favorites of Dr. Woodward and I think I and some NASA folks at a recent propulsion workshop in CO convinced Jim to bring this IIT experiment back online again. However, it needs to be updated with active resonant frequency tracking and I hope Jim gets around to building this badly needed feature for this experiment. Without it, as the PZT stack heats up while powered, its driver oscillator quickly drifts off the mechanical resonant frequency set by the size of the stack components and tension of the six 4-40 stainless steel screws that hold the PZT stack together. These stainless steel screws act like very stiff springs that hold the PZT stack and its brass reaction mass together, but as the PZT stack heats up while being driven by its power amplifier, the drive frequency needs to be continuously changed to track the changes in the mechancial resonant frequency due to the PZT heating effects. And the mechanical quality factor Q of this device is very high, so it takes "just so" tuning to get everything to align correctly when trying to do the tuning manually.
Paul March
Friendswood, TX

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

GIThruster wrote:Always fascinating and instructive to see how theories grapple with the Atlantis story. Trouble is, Plato was pretty specific that it was West of and close by Gibralter, which puts it by Madeira, Portugal. The detail in that part of the story is so specific, I would trust it before details about how old, etc..
If Plato had been a first hand observer I'd be more likely to agree, but he was relating a story his uncle related that Fred the barber in Lydia related... One of the best "theories" about the existance of Atlantis was included in a fun book by Peter James called Ancient Mysteries.
His proposed basic process (AFAIR) for the creation of the "Atlantis Myth" was:
  • * Solon traveled "to Egypt" via Lydia (south coast of Anatolia) not Lybia (north coast of Africa).
    * In Lydia he heard the tale of the destruction by cataclysm (earthquake and flood) of the City of Tantalus (aka Sipylus) (Atlantis?) which did happen (with the result as described in the later tales) "before" the beginning of Lydia.
    * In Lydia, the location was described as under one of the pillars (legs) of Atlas (Mount of Sipylus (aka Tantalus) - Atlas is conflated with Hercules in many instances)
    * In Lydia he heard descriptions of the physical layout of "the city of Tantalus" which appears to have had many of the features later ascribed to "Atlantis".
    * In Egypt he learned that the only "modern" land older than Egypt was Lydia and that Egypt was over 8000 years old.
It is a fun read.

CaptainBeowulf
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 am

Post by CaptainBeowulf »

Sounds like a good interpretation of how the Atlantis part of the myth could have been developed.

Then, it got conflated with another tradition that vaguely recalled a major rise in the level of the Med and the flooding of the Black Sea basin thousands of years earlier.

This may well have been conflated with another story of some ancient travelers who succeeded in navigating the North Atlantic and getting to N. America by way of the islands... or, even though that story "sounds right," it's entirely possible that people could have come up with an imaginary other continent west across the Atlantic. It's possible, after all, for people to develop myths or legends that turn out to coincidentally be right...

Skepticism is good. It stops more rational people from coming up with hollow earths, sunken continents and ancient Atlantian civilizations with fusion power, antigravity, flying saucers and rockets with nuclear warheads...

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Well during the ice age the sea levels were so low. People were walking to north america. When the water came back, who knows how that affected people.

icarus
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:48 am

Post by icarus »

Well during the ice age the sea levels were so low. People were walking to north america.
You mean like Moses and the Red Sea kind of thing?

I think it was that the perma-ice came so far south they could cross ... or?

CaptainBeowulf
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 am

Post by CaptainBeowulf »

I believe it's called the Bering Sea land bridge. I think it was actual land from Siberia to Alaska, not just ice.

Presumably, there was a continual ice shoreline from northern Europe to North America, but I don't know if anyone would have been hardy enough to walk across that much glacier. Or just lucky enough to not fall into a hidden crevasse or get stuck on a piece that splits off and drifts away as an iceberg.

What I have wondered about is Plato's story about the lost route to another continent on the other side of the Atlantic. As I said before, it sounds like the route the Vikings took: Shetlands/Orkneys, Iceland, Greenland, Labrador. If the sea level was a lot lower, the islands might have been a lot bigger, and some other undersea mounts would have been islands. So maybe there would have been a much more complete island route to follow. However, if the ice came down that far, and there was an ice coast to follow, it might have been quite dangerous. If there was a lot of ice breaking off of the coast the whole time, it could have wrecked ships. On the other hand, if they were just in small ships (about the same size as the later Viking ships), maybe it's relatively easy to maneuver around chunks of ice.

CaptainBeowulf
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 am

Post by CaptainBeowulf »

Also just came across this:

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-pape ... story.html

6000BC, same general time frame as the proposed Black Sea flooding. Possibly people were displaced from around the Indian Ocean Coast, including the Gulf of Arabia and the Red Sea, around the same time as others were displaced from the Black Sea. More reason for the intensity of flood myths in the area.

AcesHigh
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:59 am

Post by AcesHigh »

Skipjack wrote:Well during the ice age the sea levels were so low. People were walking to north america. When the water came back, who knows how that affected people.
to me, its kind obvious that the end of the last ice age had a tremendous affect on earlir human myths of global flooding. Beucase it WAS a global event. Sea levels rose all across the globe. And humans ALWAYS liked to live near the sea. So the quantity of villages, settlements and earlier cities lost was enourmous.

Image

icarus
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:48 am

Post by icarus »

So theory is that Noah's backyard (where he built the Arc) was off the coast of Iran, now under the Arabian Sea ... no wonder humanity feels rudderless sometimes, most of significant history (100K to 6K BC) has no archaeological record.

http://www.livescience.com/history/lost ... 01209.html

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Rightly so, this branch thread has been started over in general to save the ME Thread as ME.
I'll post over there.

deane
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Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:27 am

Post by deane »

icarus wrote:I think it was that the perma-ice came so far south they could cross ... or?
No, as Skipjack noted "Beringia" was exposed due to so much water being tied up in the glaciers. Eastern SIberia and Beringia themselves were largely glacier-free though, due to their arid climate. Cold, dry grasslands. Not exactly choice living space, but survivable.

AcesHigh
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:59 am

Post by AcesHigh »


chrismb
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

I discovered the other day that Ernst Mach was an 'atom denier'. He refused to accept that matter was made out of atoms.

..OK, so maybe we shouldn't judge books by (...err...) what they say?

AcesHigh
Posts: 655
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:59 am

Post by AcesHigh »

chrismb wrote:I discovered the other day that Ernst Mach was an 'atom denier'. He refused to accept that matter was made out of atoms.

..OK, so maybe we shouldn't judge books by (...err...) what they say?
eh?

like if Einstein didnt himself refused several of the principles of quantum mechanics brought by the physicists from Copenhagen.

you should judge whole books (persons) by what they say. But judge not each idea of the book by the whole book. Judge each idea of the book by the idea itself.

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