Mach Effect progress

[vnbt4]

I can't say for sure that I am sold on Mach effects but I can see the possibility that it works. My really big hang up on both QVF warp drives and METs is that they are both promising fantastic technological leaps in propulsion but they have yet to show anything that moves (granted at the levels being worked at for METs it is exactly were it should be with the systems used to power them) but that is just my opinion. What i would really like to ask is if there is really no progress on Whites end then why not just keep quiet and move on to other more accepted work and try and salvage his reputation on the back end. I mean if he really is working on a total flop then the truth will come out and he will forever to connected to the stigma of the "nasa warp drive failure". I think that we should give the warp drive as much of a chance as METs because there goals are the same and the engineering principles are very similar (at least from the stand point of a math less teen) the ultimate goal of both the METs and warp drive is to take us into interstellar space.

The video from November shows an odd bump in the interferometer which seem to indicate some effect so we should see if the experiment that obtained that result was done in a vacuum and whether or not it has been ruled out as noise or interference not related to the operation of the device.

Sorry for the rant i have just finished reading the "lenr is real" topic and it seems to be more or less approaching a mad house there. The important thing in all of this is that we really don't know anything for sure and making assumptions is dangerous in almost any scientific venture. Let us hold our overwhelming skepticism on White's work because even if his physics is shoty he is working with Paul March and there by has access to engineering details to Mach Effect data.

[ladajo]

The difference with ME is that they are giving it a good go and are reputable scientists, unlike the clown in the other thread.
I swap the occaisional email with Paul and it is refreshing to see a slow steady determined scientific process at work.
Just like Jaeyoung Park.

[vnbt4]

I don't doubt Paul March's integrity. I am just wondering whether or not White's work is going anywhere and how Paul March is helping with moving the research forward from the QVF end. I have a major issue with Mach Effects because my conversation with Dr. Woodward seemed to exclude the possibility of the quantum vacuum but the standard model seems to show that there is. I am not saying that ME is wrong or even that it won't work as advertised i am saying that there maybe more to ME that includes some form of QVF that has yet to be seen or explored. With that said I am hoping for some news on the warp drive front that can either confirm or deny any progress being made to get a better understanding on where the research should go from here and how far away a practical test might be.

(What i mean by test is an experiment shows a warp field that is replicable) this post might come off a little aggressive. I apologize

[GIThruster]

GI, but you already said ME could be used to generate the negative mass for a warp drive (as I understand, scaling the effect to a point the oscillation in the mass turns it into negative? Would however the Warp Drive be pulsing too? On-off-on-off?

Woodward's theory is very different from the ZPF, QVF, White stuff you're comparing it with. In M-E theory, the ability to generate negative mass does in theory create the ability to create a warp field, but that field is probably easier to build and cheaper to build as a wormhole generator than as a ship's warp drive. A warp ship in M-E theory is really a ship that can open its own wormhole. It does not warp spacetime the way Sonny promotes and in fact if he were right in his model about how to warp spacetime, we would have had evidence of this a couple years ago. Both his warp experiments were complete failures. there is no evidence for what he is still selling. Making prettier computer models of what his warp ship would look like is just fundraising. It does not come to the issue of the evidence. The evidence is that his model is BROKEN and he has demonstrated this twice with null findings.

Woodward by contrast has demonstrated thrust as well as the fluctuation itself with his rotator back around 2008-9. What is really needed are funds to move Woodward's work into commercial development. Maybe $2M for a lab, VHF pre-prototype thruster and power system, and another $2M for a miniaturized power system, prototype thruster and a nanosat TRL demonstration flying from ISS. That's significant cash and Woodward has no idea how to raise it. I don't even think he's trying. Regardless of what Woodward does, his work will not move forward until we have a commercial grade thruster, meaning something light enough to put in a sat that produces constant thrusts comparable to those of a Hall Thruster, but that require far less power and no propellant. That is something that can go to market immediately and produce income sufficient to press forward into higher thrust efficiencies and eventually things like wormhole generation.

IMHO.

[vnbt4]

GIThruster could you site the sources which state the null results of White's previous experiments? Also, Paul March is working with White in some capacity mean he has the opportunity to help push the ME model through even if he has to use White's terminology in order to get better results. I have a hard time believing that NASA would let White stroke his ego(or what have you) with their name attached if he is still getting bad results. It would be horrible PR for them in both the short and long term if his failure ever made it out. White very well might be barking up the wrong tree but he will have to change his game eventually otherwise NASA will forever hold it against him which could lead to a variety of unforeseen problems for him later on. I don't know I might be naive.

[Carl White]

I wonder whether there is any way to get Elon Musk interested in testing M-E.

[GIThruster]

GIThruster could you site the sources which state the null results of White's previous experiments? Also, Paul March is working with White in some capacity mean he has the opportunity to help push the ME model through even if he has to use White's terminology in order to get better results. I have a hard time believing that NASA would let White stroke his ego(or what have you) with their name attached if he is still getting bad results. It would be horrible PR for them in both the short and long term if his failure ever made it out. White very well might be barking up the wrong tree but he will have to change his game eventually otherwise NASA will forever hold it against him which could lead to a variety of unforeseen problems for him later on. I don't know I might be naive.

You need to go back and look through yourself. I don't recall the sources. Obviously, the first warp interferometry experiment was a bust, and as result, Sonny decided to raise the precision bar several orders magnitude with the second interferometer. He had already been 4 orders magnitude beyond what he said he needed, so that was just an excuse and so far as I know, one he has never justified with an amended model. Both interferometry experiments however found nothing.

NASA knows about Sonny's bullshit and does nothing about it. He gets most of his funding from DOD so they don't interfere. Paul is not in a position to influence Sonny since his work is paid for specifically to pursue QVF model. That's why Sonny had an MLT on his balance and never powered it with AC.

Its all just a big farce and when you look at the actual claims, its shocking he gets away with it. the lies about the 8 year old MLT results though are still the grandest. If they let him get away with that, obviously they'll let him say almost anything. After all, NASA has a Warp Program! Don't you read the papers?! http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/12/tech/inno ... spaceship/

[vnbt4]

I have always hated politics and now it seems it is also killing science as well. I as glad church and state are separate other wise puff. Okay I will send an email to Dr. Woodward about getting onto the news letter but I am looking into QVF just in case. I anyway i really am just starting to understand math and i am at least two years from being able to pick through ME or QVF with any real insight.

[rashudo]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but I still don't understand how Harold White is generating a warp field. He has some oscillating capacitor that is supposed to generate negative energy? But I thought only the casimir effect between two very close metal plates can generate negative energy? And even then, who is to say that this type of negative energy is the same type that Alcubierre meant?

[GIThruster]

It's a long time since I've looked at the QVF stuff just because I have no respect for it, but the main source to go to on Sonny's model is his warp 101 paper:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi. ... 015936.pdf

And no, according to his theory, one does not need an oscillating capacitor. DC fields are supposed to be enough to generate a warp field. If inertia where the consequence of zero point fluctuations, then this might be so. Turns out inertia is the consequence of gravity, not ZPF virtual particle production, so Sonny's model is broken and can't ever work. He should have known this, since if the ZPF story is correct the virtual particles either would gravitate and collapse the universe, or not gravitate and violate EEP. Obviously, ZPF theory is wrong, and this is what Sonny showed in the lab.

[vnbt4]

Just a thought but does anyone think it would be possible to make a nanosat with Mach Effect thruster and using the diy community knowledge to get an RC aircraft to carry a small rocket to a given altitude and then using a second stage rocket to propel the nanosat into a LEO? I mean is that a foolish idea or would it help forward the ME research if it can be proved that the nanosat was propelled by the thruster and not some other means?

[GIThruster]

I am working on a preprototype VHF MET designed to be suitable for a nanosat, and NASA currently gives free rides for nanos to ISS and then launches them out the side of the station with a little spring loaded gizmo. The nanosat components themselves are cheap and one can have a custom one built by the kit provider for about $30k, so the real expense is in the thruster, its power system and testing equipment. If I can get sustained commercial grade thrust from a VHF MET then I'll look to raise investment funds for power system miniaturization and the TRL7 demo.

[williatw]

NASA's Warp Drive? Starship Enterprise Makes a Virtual Splash

By Alan Boyle

This rendering of the IXS Enterprise, created by Mark Rademaker, was used in a presentation by NASA's Harold White. It's based on White's theoretical work, with input from Star Trek graphic designer Michael Okuda.

So is NASA working on a warp drive? Last year, the folks at Johnson Space Center told SpaceRef that White and his colleagues are working on a warp-drive interferometer that could theoretically detect small-scale warp bubbles in spacetime. No breakthrough has yet been reported, although Rademaker said he's heard that "there is progress in the field."

Efforts to contact White for an update have been unsuccessful so far, but to get up to speed on the subject, check out this report from last year, plus the presentations and papers archived by NASA. You can also check in with Icarus Interstellar, the 100 Year Starship project, the Tau Zero Foundation and the Centauri Dreams blog.

First published June 11th 2014, 4:01 pm

Not encouraging sounds like a bust...


http://www.nbcnews.com/#/science/space/ ... sh-n128831

[kurt9]

According to "GIThruster" (and I see no reason to doubt this), Sonny White got a null result on both of his interferometry experiments, despite dialing up the sensitivity several orders of magnitude beyond what was called for in his original paper. That Sonny talks of a "non-null" result (rather than a positive one) is also indicative of null results from his experiments. I think its reasonable to say that this approach will not lead to FTL space travel. Given that Sonny White seems to favor QVF theories, I would say that his null results are further disproof of QVF theories as well. In other words, we can forget about this design for an FTL space craft.

At this point in time, Woodward's work in using Mach's Principle to accomplish the same objectives appears to be the only credible option available in the foreseeable future.

[DeltaV]

50th AIAA/ASME/SAE/ASEE Joint Propulsion Conference
28-30 July 2014
Cleveland, Ohio

TUESDAY, JULY 29, 2014
NFF-05. Future Flight Propulsion Systems
Co-Chair(s): Gregory Meholic (The Aerospace Corporation)
7:00 PM - 9:00 PM; Room 12

8:00 PM - 8:30 PM
Theory of a Mach Effect Thruster
Heidi Fearn; James F. Woodward; Keith Wanser