Mach Effect progress

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby GIThruster » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:34 pm

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

CaptainBeowulf
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby CaptainBeowulf » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:36 am


chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby chrismb » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:40 am


Barry Kirk
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:33 pm
Location: York, PA
Contact:

Postby Barry Kirk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:00 pm


GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby GIThruster » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:05 pm

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Barry Kirk
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:33 pm
Location: York, PA
Contact:

Postby Barry Kirk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:12 pm


GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby GIThruster » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:44 pm

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Barry Kirk
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:33 pm
Location: York, PA
Contact:

Postby Barry Kirk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:00 pm


GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby GIThruster » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:17 pm

There are actually a small handful of misunderstanding developing here and some of them are likely mine. :-)

I don't think it's fair to say that an EMF back action occurs in an electric motor that is in any way significant so far as the performance of that motor is concerned. Maybe it is but I'm not familiar with that dynamic. I think rather, the big picture here is to recognize that an electrical motor is a transducer, that converts electrical force, energy and power into mechanical force, energy and power. Motors are tranducers but M-E thrusters are not. Primarily, they are gravinertial transistors. They don't convert electrical power into mechanical power so much as they control the flow of gravinertial flux and the force, energy and power that represents. So when looking at efficiency issues, the N/W rating for a gravinertial transistor is not a conversion rate, but rather just the working numbers the transistor needs be provided with and should be expected to generate. In short--if you don't keep in mind that an M-E thruster is a transistor, you will misunderstand what the efficiency rating represents.

For instance, what the 1 N/W thrust efficiency rating used in the Warpstar illustration really means is, one could use thus-and-such sized power system. If we have 1 N/W thrusters, we can power our interplanetary cruisers with fuel cells. In fact, we could power our launch systems with rechargable batteries. (This does however, also rely upon a reasonable thrust to weight ratio which Warpstar did not deeply examine as those papers are 8 pages max. I can tell you though that the numbers chosen were very reasonable.)

As far as the issues that arise when an thruster is traveling and especially when it is accelerating: to do this math requires things like Lorenz transforms. There are indeed engineers here in this forum who can do that sort of math, but in general they are the province of physicists which we do not have in house. It is IMHO therefore wise to steer clear of the issues that arise when you start talking about accelerating, non-inertial frames of reference, etc. It is wise to bear in mind that M-E thrusters develop constant stationary thrust, just like any other thruster, and leave it to the physicists to work out the implications of what this means once they start accelerating.
Last edited by GIThruster on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Barry Kirk
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:33 pm
Location: York, PA
Contact:

Postby Barry Kirk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:25 pm

Just a minor point... I said Generators, not Motors... I was talking about Generators having a mechanical back force which is why you need a source of mechanical power to turn them.

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby GIThruster » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:27 pm

My bad. Gotcha. :-)

The "back reaction" against all acceleration is inertia, which is just what M-E devices manipulate. I don't think there is another back reaction involved which standard theory does not account for.
Last edited by GIThruster on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Barry Kirk
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:33 pm
Location: York, PA
Contact:

Postby Barry Kirk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:28 pm

No problem...

CaptainBeowulf
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby CaptainBeowulf » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:04 pm


chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby chrismb » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:26 pm


GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby GIThruster » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:42 pm

chris, I'm not a physicist, but I think the trouble people commonly find here is they fail to note that all thrusters generate constant stationary force. Although the force generated is constant when stationary, it is not when measured by an observer in the scenario you envision. The thruster is accelerating, and though its force is constant in its own rest frame, it is not constant when accelerating. I believe the proper terminology is to say that force is not "invariant".

Beyond that I'm not going to go. I'm just noting to you that this trouble only comes up when engineers pretend to be physicists and ignore the need to do transforms that is so obvious to the physicist.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests