Mach Effect progress

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

paperburn1
Posts: 2449
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:03 pm

Good point. So far I have heard of only earth like planets larger than earth it's self. (limits of our technology?) but if the obverse is true where are the LGM? Neil deGrasse Tyson said if they can get here the should be far superior and it a good thing we do not interact because weaker cultures are either destroyed or absorbed by the superior culture.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Skipjack
Posts: 6039
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby Skipjack » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:50 am

paperburn1 wrote:Good point. So far I have heard of only earth like planets larger than earth it's self. (limits of our technology?) but if the obverse is true where are the LGM? Neil deGrasse Tyson said if they can get here the should be far superior and it a good thing we do not interact because weaker cultures are either destroyed or absorbed by the superior culture.

I think is this is quite off topic for this thread, but I think there are a few possible reasons:
1. radiowaves disappear in background noise after a few lightyears.
2. It would be save to assume that they have developed means of communication that is either not recognizable buy us (yet), or not even detectable (yet).
Our cell phone wavelength e.g. is extremely short and would not reach far into space, yet it is the more modern technology.
3. One terrifying thought that I have had is that there could be someone out there who is systematically seeking and destroying every civilization that reaches a certain technological state.

I think that it is better for us, if we are not detected and can remain unnoticed in our corner of the galaxy until we have reached a technological state that would allow us to successfully defend ourselves against civilizations capable of interstellar travel.

TDPerk
Posts: 976
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:55 pm
Location: Northern Shen. Valley, VA
Contact:

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby TDPerk » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:03 am

Skipjack wrote:3. One terrifying thought that I have had is that there could be someone out there who is systematically seeking and destroying every civilization that reaches a certain technological state.

I think that it is better for us, if we are not detected and can remain unnoticed in our corner of the galaxy until we have reached a technological state that would allow us to successfully defend ourselves against civilizations capable of interstellar travel.


I regret to conclude that is most likely to explain the Fermi Paradox, and that the only way to be more likely to survive is to spread very widely, stealthily, and quickly.

There is a slimmer but still next leading chance that in our light cone, we happen to be first.

We are the Old Ones.
molon labe
montani semper liberi
para fides paternae patria

hanelyp
Posts: 2253
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby hanelyp » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:43 pm

As far as detecting radio signals: The analog modulation methods that used to be used for practically all our radio traffic produce signals that stand out as artificial. An alien scientist studying the signals, presuming he can get sufficient signal/noise ratio, should have little difficulty devising a receiver. In contrast, the digital modes we are using for increasing portions of radio traffic tend to look a lot like random noise if you don't already know the modulation parameters. Presuming the radio carrier is somehow decoded, the compressed data streams used for so many systems present another layer to decrypt. On top of that, there are radio links deliberately encrypted. An advanced civilization using exclusively advanced digital signaling for radio may not be detectable by radio telescopes.

On a tangent, anyone else notice how in startrek a marginal communication link always shows analog style degradation?
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

zapkitty
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:13 pm

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby zapkitty » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:31 am

paperburn1 wrote:Has anyone considered the reason why fermis paradox exists this just because of plant size... cannot reach orbit if the plant was 1.75 times as large as earth...


Heck of a beanstalk you got there...

paperburn1
Posts: 2449
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby paperburn1 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:23 pm

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D I did not even catch that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

JoeP
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby JoeP » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:32 am

Read a novel that covered that angle. The Killing Star by Charles R. Pellegrino and George Zebrowski. Not a bad book, but quite depressing!

TDPerk wrote:
Skipjack wrote:3. One terrifying thought that I have had is that there could be someone out there who is systematically seeking and destroying every civilization that reaches a certain technological state.

I think that it is better for us, if we are not detected and can remain unnoticed in our corner of the galaxy until we have reached a technological state that would allow us to successfully defend ourselves against civilizations capable of interstellar travel.


I regret to conclude that is most likely to explain the Fermi Paradox, and that the only way to be more likely to survive is to spread very widely, stealthily, and quickly.

There is a slimmer but still next leading chance that in our light cone, we happen to be first.

We are the Old Ones.

RERT
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby RERT » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:17 am

Here's a book plot for you.

Intelligence is transient: farming has removed all selection pressure, and brain size is already heading south very fast. All the LGMs have to do is slow progress enough, and they have a defence strategy.

So: they regulate away nuclear power, nuclear rockets. Make sure fusion money is spent on uneconomic dead-ends. Seek to de-industrialise the world with scare stories on climate change. Subsidise wind and solar so that nuclear generation is never economic, and will thus never take us to the stars. Oh, and keep the population in check to reduce our industrial capacity and threat to them. While they are at it, turn the world against science by making it a tool for propaganda. Demonise genetic manipulation which could sharply increase human intelligence.

The elite are not conniving aliens, but they do act like them.

kunkmiester
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby kunkmiester » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:23 pm

I was actually looking at a similar plot, slight tweak on the motives though.

The big boss aliens don't care, but they have an hierarchy based on tech development. They don't have a prime directive analogue, in fact they embrace sharing the benefits.

Problem is the client race that discovers earth realizes given the pointers needed they would quickly outrank them. So they sabotage humans to give them time to try to stay ahead. Mostly socio-economic though, bs physics models can help, but nothing like social collapse from massive investment bubbles that gutted most industrial sectors to leave you too broke for research for a century or so.
Evil is evil, no matter how small

RERT
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby RERT » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:44 pm

We're getting a distance from the Mach effect, but one last thought. Suppose the LGMs know they will arrive in 1000 years and are expecting a fair fight. If they can reduce economic growth on Earth by 0.3% pa, we will be 20 times poorer than we would have been by the time they get here. No longer a fair fight - more like USA v Lesotho.

paperburn1
Posts: 2449
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:07 pm

Back to Mach effect, It in itself should be hard to detect so perhaps it would be a good idea to look for heat signature from the power plant. based on our knowledge of material science a heat signature in the 500 c to 1500 c range would indicate a radiator for a fission or possibly a fusion reactor. you know that the laws of thermodynamics say there are only three ways of getting rid of waste heat. But only one of them will work in space: radiation.
so if simple nuclear power plant whose energy conversion efficiency from thermal to electric is approximately 10 percent. The plant is to generate 100 kW of useful electricity. The reactor operates at approximately 800 K, and a radiator with emissivity equal to 0.85 would weigh about 10 kg/m2. The thermal power to be dissipated from the reactor would be about 1 MW. So we start looking for big brig IR signatures in the MW range.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

kunkmiester
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby kunkmiester » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:30 am

What if it's a much lighter duty system running off a NTR? That wouldn't have as much of a heat signature. Thinking probe here, less a colony or invasion hsip.
Evil is evil, no matter how small

paperburn1
Posts: 2449
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby paperburn1 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:30 pm

Well if they are in our system we still should be able to spot them easy. How hot does the MET get during normal operation?
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

hanelyp
Posts: 2253
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby hanelyp » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:12 pm

If you're trying to hide from observers in a known direction, it's possible to direct waste heat in another direction.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

alexjrgreen
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: Mach Effect progress

Postby alexjrgreen » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:27 pm

Ars artis est celare artem.


Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest