Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by Axil »

It is not so much how fast the plasmoid forms, but how long it persists with a relatively high density and energy of the contained ions. Inertia plays a role.
The plasmoid reaction should get to maximum magnetic confinement as fast as possible before the ions begin to move toward the butt end of the plasmoid.

This ion inertia will maximize the triple product.

If some way was found to produce counter rotating plasmoids that feed ions at each other along the same connecting line, that might be a way to increase the triple product. Like a magnetic mirror, each plasmoid would reflect ions at the other plasmoid and confine the ions between them.

Such plasmoids pairs exist. They are called Falaco Solitons. Such vortexes form on the wingtips of aircraft.

Focus fusion would be well served to come up with a way to produce Falaco Solitons. A double faced FF electrode with a hole in the middle to let the connecting channel form should work. Or a pair of counter facing electrodes having the cathode spikes of each pair member positions 180 degrees opposite from each other aligned along a common center line.

This Falaco vortex pairs are connected with a thin connecting channel. Quarks are Falaco Solitons.

Here is a way you can demonstrate this vortex pairs for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=909o_kbCdFg

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by ladajo »

Well, apparently you need to have lunch with Lerner and tell him how he is all wrong about his business.

Or, better yet, you could open your own lab and show everyone how it is done. Why waste time with Lerner since you have it all figured out. Just like you have Rossi all figured out. You could do that as well.

What do you do in real life outside of mining google for non-integrated inapplicable factoids to support your half baked ideas?

It must be tough thinking you are the smartest guy in the room all the time. Maybe you should hang out with shitsausage, schnideshit or what ever the idiot's name is.

When you get some time why don't you explain to us why or why not Polywell will work?
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by Axil »

ladajo wrote:Well, apparently you need to have lunch with Lerner and tell him how he is all wrong about his business.

Or, better yet, you could open your own lab and show everyone how it is done. Why waste time with Lerner since you have it all figured out. Just like you have Rossi all figured out. You could do that as well.

What do you do in real life outside of mining google for non-integrated inapplicable factoids to support your half baked ideas?

It must be tough thinking you are the smartest guy in the room all the time. Maybe you should hang out with shitsausage, schnideshit or what ever the idiot's name is.

When you get some time why don't you explain to us why or why not Polywell will work?
I wish Lerner only the best, but in the space interview, I noticed that Lerner is resistive to suggestions that he received during the question and answer portion of the interview. This type of behavior requires an education and an attitude adjustment provided by the school of hard knocks.

Personally, for good or ill, I cannot fight my own nature so take me or leave me at your own pleasure.

crowberry
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by crowberry »

The Fusion Power Associates held their annual meeting on the 10th to 11th of December 2013 in Washington DC. Eric Lerner from LPP attended the meeting. The presentation slides are up on the website at
http://fire.pppl.gov/fpa_annual_meet.html#2013. The LPP presentation is here: Fusion with the Plasma Focus – Eric Lerner, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics http://fire.pppl.gov/FPA13_Lerner_plasma_focus.pdf.

D Tibbets
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by D Tibbets »

Some rotation or vortex like effect of the plasma or a component of it may help. I think that is why having a relative mild spin on the initial plasma may help with the DPF. Learner points this out with the weak axial field that results in claimed improved performance. This field may be as weak as the Earths magnetic field contribution. How much this can be pushed before diminishing returns or reversal of benefits is an open question, though I suspect those in the loop have a fair handle on it.

For rapid plasma collapse, certainly in a perfect world where initial velocity of all particles have zero velocity and all undergo exactly equal acceleration (actually scaled acceleration based on the initial ion distance from the center in the primordial cloud) so that all of the charged ions arrive in a common center at the same time. But with variable starting position and variable initial speeds (small relative to the accelerated speeds, but still real) it is impossible to get all of the ions in the center at the same time. With reaction times of a nanosecond verses up to several hundred nanoseconds, some of the ions will have exited the core while others are still approaching. You cannot have a perfect focus in time and space. At some point the the gains will reverse. I don't know the scale of this but I suspect a nonosecond is pushing it.

This is similar to Bussard's (EMC2 patent application) mention of the theoretical possibility of forming a "black hole" like effect in the center of the Polywell where all of the accelerated ions converge to a central tiny core at the same time.The ions would experience so many density driven collisions in this tiny volume and time interval that the ions would all fuse in one pass, none would escape. He then quickly points out that this is unrealistic and that many passes are necessary to end up with a similar final result. The same consideration would apply to the DPF, except that multiple passes are limited by the inertial confinement time, much higher densities with resultant faster fusion rates, etc. , but still there is a practical compromise between confinement time and density.

Another concern that may apply is that if the plasmoid collapse is too rapid, not only confinement time is adversely effected (relative to the achievable density), but the temperature of the plasma- speed of the ions, may be too high. The fusion cross section could be falling, especially in relation to Bremsstruhlung losses. The triple product is not open ended in practical systems. It is the best compromise between the three components that wins the race.
In a Tokamak it may be modest temperatures (higher temperatures might be desired but is very difificult in this machine- that is partially why only DT fuel is practical) with modest densities and long confinement times. The Polywell has much shorter confinement times, but higher densities and temperature- and perhaps better temperature profiles. The DPF has very high densities, and very short confinement times with temperatures perhaps comparable to the Polywell. Because confinement time is inertially driven in the DPF (mixed up with the collapsing magnetic field duration and geometry), the confinement time is limited. You cannot cheat like in the Polywell or Tokamak by having many multiple passes before confinement loss. Priorities are modified.

An example: effective densities of 1 unit with a confinement time of 100 ns is better than 9 units of density in an equal volume for 1 ns. Note I threw in volume as well. Even with increased density, if the volume decreases an equivalent amount, the total number of fusable ions is unchanged. If it takes more energy to create this more dense and smaller volume of plasma you are losing ground. The only way to gain is if you have a significantly higher fuel ion burn up percentage.

Just increasing the average density is not a perfect solution. Everything is relative. Admittedly some natural or induced organization of the plasma that modifies the distribution of the ions in the plasma while not necessarily modifying the average density may have benefit. In the Polywell this might be POPS effects. In a DPF this might be some vortex or counter streaming effect , etc. But I again guess that shortening the duration of the reacting average plasma may be harmful, at least beyond some limit, despite some gains in temperature or density.

A fission analog may be plutonium 240. This isotope is made like plutonium 239, except an extra neutron gets stuck on. The problem is that it is too reactive. It fissions to easily. With bomb implosion, the fission rate is too fast, the heat generated by the fission reactions blows the bomb apart before desired amounts of fuel has fissioned. The result is a fizzle, a much weaker bomb. The problem is that while the reaction rate increased, it increased faster than the reciprocal of the confinement time. Net effect was less energy efficiency due to less fuel burn up in the available time.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

crowberry
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by crowberry »

LPP has put up a new newsletter on their website http://www.lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.c ... 4-2014.pdf. It is worth reading as it summarizes their accomplishments in 2013 and details their plans for 2014.
In 2014:
We will carry out our first crowdfunding campaign this spring. Given adequate funding and supplier timeliness, we will start experiments in May with the tungsten electrodes, expecting a nearly 100-fold increase in plasmoid density and fusion yield. With these experiments we expect to confirm in the course of a few months the predicted operation of the axial field coil and of heavier mix gases. We will then proceed in the fall to test shorter electrodes, which will give higher current. Finally, we will move to begin tests with hydrogen-boron fuel.
Following LPP activities this year will be as interesting as keeping an eye on what General Fusion is doing...

mvanwink5
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Location: N.C. Mountains

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by mvanwink5 »

Maybe a 2014 dark horse announcement trifecta?
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

quixote
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:44 pm

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by quixote »

Doubtful they'll be a 2014 candidate.
The Focus Fusion Report wrote:Since we won’t resume experimental testing until May, we don’t expect to complete the demonstration of scientific feasibility in 2014, but we do expect to take large steps towards that goal.

crowberry
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by crowberry »

LPP is having a Public Event on Sunday, March 09, 2014 at 2pm - 4pm in New York. The details of the meeting are on this page:
http://www.lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.c ... &Itemid=90

Ivy Matt
Posts: 711
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 6:43 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by Ivy Matt »

The February newsletter can be found here.

Headlines:

*Tungsten electrodes are on their way with improved anode design
*Plasma focus research moves forward as Russian device hits 30 J with deuterium-tritium
*LPP and Iran's PPRC collaborate on pre-ionization experiments in pursuit of clean, peaceful energy
*Digging in the Data—oscillations and x-rays make for insulator optimism
*Crowdfunding Plans Move Forward as 60 Volunteer – New video + March 9 livestream event!

The big news is that the new tungsten electrodes are due to be installed in mid-May. The purpose of the crowdfunding effort is to raise funds for the beryllium electrodes that will be needed for the final set of experiments.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by Skipjack »

So it seems like they will be able to control some of the erosion problems that they have been experiencing. That is good news as this is one of the major engineering obstacles they had to deal with.
I cant wait to see how the new tungsten electrodes will perform.

crowberry
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by crowberry »

crowberry wrote:LPP is having a Public Event on Sunday, March 09, 2014 at 2pm - 4pm in New York.
LPP has a new Youtube channel and the presentation and discussion from the NYC public event are there for viewing with some videos of the new tungsten electrode: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiBdit ... ture=watch

mvanwink5
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Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by mvanwink5 »

Amazing, Eric Lerner seems to imply there are only three alternative fusion approaches, ITER, NIF, and LPP. In his comparisons of fusion efforts, he makes no mention of General Fusion, EMC2, Tri-Alpha, Helion, LM, Solox, (sorry if I left an approach out). Further in that youtube video, no one challenged this. In addition, although funding is a sore spot with everyone, GF and Tri-Alpha have been funded which counters EL's thesis that LLP's funding issue is bureaucracy and herd mentality, and leaves one wondering what the issue really has been. From the youtube crowdfunding fund raiser kick off, one might come away with the idea that LLP is nearly a done deal, just add money. LPP's technical engineering hurdles are not trivial and any point along the way to their solutions can cause the focus fusion approach to fail. Also, maybe I missed this, but EL failed to mention how poisonous beryllium is.

I give GF, EMC2, Tri-Alpha much better success chance if for no other reason than the science is the primary hurdle (stable plasma compression for GF, Tri-Alpha, and Helion, and scaling - supposedly solved- for EMC2's polywell) and each has a good chance of success (my opinion), whereas the technical hurdles are the knottiest part of LLP, and something that was glossed over with handwaving.

One point I thought was good was the need of publishing project research. GF and Tri-Alpha have been publishing, but a sore spot has been EMC2's lack of published research (others have published polywell research though). Also, there was the thesis on microwave diagnostics for EMC2's WB-8, which gave some insight on the project, but there is a huge dissatisfying publishing gap for EMC2 (which has been debated at length here). So, in the end, as I see it, I chalk EL's publishing criticisms as just more fundraising rhetoric.

Don't get me wrong, any approach that achieves economic electric energy is all good in my eyes.
Counting the days to commercial fusion. It is not that long now.

zapkitty
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:13 pm

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by zapkitty »

mvanwink5 wrote:Amazing, Eric Lerner seems to imply there are only three alternative fusion approaches, ITER, NIF, and LPP. In his comparisons of fusion efforts, he makes no mention of General Fusion, EMC2, Tri-Alpha, Helion, LM, Solox, (sorry if I left an approach out).
Me-ow :)

The audience was Jane and Joe Q. Public and the public has been led to believe that there are only two approaches to fusion: ITER and NIF.

Period.

Eric then informs the audience of the alternative approach, Focus Fusion, that LPP is working on. This venue was specifically for LPP outreach.

It takes most of the time allotted to explain what fusion is and how LPP's work on Focus Fusion differs from ITER and NIF.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Re: Lawaranceville E-Newsletter

Post by ladajo »

It is, as stated, marketing for funds. Lerner is clear about that.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

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