Rick Nebel comment

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

My advice; don't take the King's shilling if you then refuse the King's duty. Publically funded scientific research should be made public.
Let me see. We have FOIA laws. The laws were followed.

Re: the King's shilling - if the People's Navy whispers in your ear and they are providing the dimes you listen.

Claiming a proprietary interest may have just been the easiest way for the Navy to hold the work close to its vest.

But it is all speculation.

But if it bothers you so much get the Queen to put up the money. I hear she owns 16% of the land in the world.

Who Owns the World: The Surprising Truth About Every Piece of Land on the Planet

Don't you think she has enough of a stash of cash to get you Brits up to speed?

Let me see - there are IEC Programs of significance in the USA and Japan. A little going on in Australia. And NOTHING in GB. Why aren't you working over your government instead of complaining about ours?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

MSimon wrote:Why aren't you working over your government instead of complaining about ours?
A very presumptive and leading question, based on several false premises.

I will use 'Polywell logic', which would go something like; the fact that the UK Government has not disclosed any evidence of successful IEC research is clear evidence that they are really on to something!

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

chrismb wrote: "Nebel" does not equal "EMC2". It is EMC2 that, as a corporate identity, claimed commerciality interests AFTER making a statement that it wanted global energy-for-all and freedoms from price-control WITHOUT any adjustments to that statement.
In what way are these statement contradictory? They may just want to keep it sufficiently close to the vest so that they don't encourage the greedy to try to buy everything out.

zbarlici
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Post by zbarlici »

HOT POTATO!

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

chrismb wrote: My advice; don't take the King's shilling if you then refuse the King's duty. Publically funded scientific research should be made public.
I guess this is the fundamental error you have not yet understood. EMC2 has not taken the "King's shilling" in the way you state. This is the Military's shilling and it doesn't have the same rules. Railing that they don't adhere to the "Kings Shilling" rules is a mug's game and what you have been doing is mugging for the crowd. You ARE playing the jester, but not well.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

zbarlici wrote:HOT POTATO!
???

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

MSimon wrote: Actually Tom suggested that Alan Boyle be contacted in a post here in response to the web site update. I did that.

Now the web site update may have been a bone.....
Probably related. I've been asking Alan for an update for months, and I got the impression Rick hadn't responded until now.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

neutron starr
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Post by neutron starr »

I'd ride with Don Quixote any day.
I am merely probing
If the prob-er were to get all worried about folks feeling put out of place when probed
You're the prob-er... what?

See chrismb quoting people out of context is not so representative of those people’s views. It makes you sound trollish

It is regrettable that in the past people have gotten over excited about science they don't understand. Polywell is not an example of this. I know why polywell will work (to a first order approximation anyway), if it works (as do many others on this forum). I can even run the nuclear reaction equations and electrostatic equations that govern the device if I want to (albeit poorly) and start to think about the energy balance of the whole device (again in an incomplete manner). I cannot however tell you why it won't work if it won't. But I know the name of the man who some day might. It’s R. Nebel. And if that man deems it useful to his interests to sit on that information I’m happy to let him. If he's not breaking the law by doing so (he isn't). as to this all being a shell game well somewhere there is a person in the US Navy who thinks it's worth 8 million (I’ll bet my life it's an officer) and having known US Navy officers in the past that’s good enough for me.

basically there is strong experimental evidence backing this up that has been reviewed by competent people who have put money into it that they could have put into already vetted equipment AND the physics are old and well understood even by me a mere college junior. It is perfectly understandable to call me over eager or over excited but that is vastly different from being a cult member. If it doesn’t work I’ll be out a few bets yes but I’ll pay up without bitching and then start reading forums on laser fusion. Not continue to insist that it works.

Now having fed the troll I will lurk for 4 months as penance. Really guys I’m sorry I know feeding only makes them stronger but I couldn't resist.
Last edited by neutron starr on Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The measure of (mental) health is flexibility (not comparison to some ‘norm’), the freedom to learn from experience…The essence of illness is the freezing of behavior into unalterable and insatiable patterns.
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neutron starr
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Post by neutron starr »

Also chrismb I have money down on polywell working. Do you have money down on it not working? Do you work for a tokomak research project? What’s your angle?
The measure of (mental) health is flexibility (not comparison to some ‘norm’), the freedom to learn from experience…The essence of illness is the freezing of behavior into unalterable and insatiable patterns.
Lawrence Kubie

jrvz
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Post by jrvz »

ladajo wrote: ...
To summarize:
Confinement = Yes, three times.
Electron Losses = Yes, but maybe not so bad, three times, and counting.
Plasma = Yes, three times, and counting.
Neutrons = Yes, three times, and counting.
I think the most pressing issue is whether Bremsstrahlung prevents a polywell from breaking even (as Todd Rider thinks), or not (as Bussard thought). I.e. loss of energy in x-rays (as opposed to loss of particles). Have any of the results so far addressed this?
- Jim Van Zandt

dch24
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Post by dch24 »

neutron starr wrote:Also chrismb I have money down on polywell working. Do you have money down on it not working? Do you work for a tokomak research project? What’s your angle?
I second that. Chris, what's your angle? Not your raison d'être. What do you stand to gain if Polywell fails?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

chrismb wrote:
MSimon wrote:Why aren't you working over your government instead of complaining about ours?
A very presumptive and leading question, based on several false premises.

I will use 'Polywell logic', which would go something like; the fact that the UK Government has not disclosed any evidence of successful IEC research is clear evidence that they are really on to something!
Well let me put it another way - small fusion is supported in the USA. Maybe not at the right level but there are numerous projects.

What have you Brits got going on? Big lasers and toks.

http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/d ... ig_rea.php

And you know what Nick Krall said about toks:
Plasma Physicist Dr. Nicholas Krall said, "We spent $15 billion dollars studying tokamaks and what we learned about them is that they are no dam n good."
If you are so worried about the King's shilling (in America we like to think of tax money as belonging to the people) why aren't you out publicly informing about the tok problem? I do. Why aren't you calling the laser program what it is: a weapons development program.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Robthebob
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Post by Robthebob »

it's clear that Dr. N want to see the approach through to a good place before releasing the information, and that place is probably to varify if it works or not.

If you are onto something groundbreaking, you better make sure it's truly groundbreaking before telling everyone about it. With cold fusion in the 80s, the people involved with that told everyone about it too quickly, before making sure it worked. At the end, it just didnt work.

I guess it doesnt take huge resources and multiple groups to confirm if something works or not. Obviously, if it doesnt work, we will let it go. If it does work, this would be one of the greatest achievement of human history.

Of course, people want reward for their hard work; i still trust Dr. N will release the information, the theory, the turnkeys for people to study, afterall, it's will allow emc2 to make money, and with more groups studying polywell, understanding and innovations come quicker.



Oh guys, keep feeding, it will make him stronger and stronger.
Throwing my life away for this whole Fusion mess.

icarus
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Post by icarus »

RobtheBob: if it is truly one of the greatest achievements in human history why would you be worried about saving one or two peoples jobs? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few ... or something like that. Think Manhattan project or WWII to put it in perspective and then see if you can genuinely worry about saving two or three jobs or even careers in the bigger scheme.

Unfortunately EMC2 is exceedingly unlikely to make any real money out of this, even if it is break-even fusion they are doing. First generation discoverers/developers are always subsumed, out-paced or plain old ripped-off by the wave of financier interests that come along to commercialise successful technologies. It is a very, very rare few inventors that actually get to cash in on their ideas .... check out the history of it, patents are a pipe dream for little guys, lawyers, big corporations and govt. depts have got the "heads I win, tails you lose" down to a fine art in that game. He might get his name on a plague and hard-luck story on an obscure website about his travails if he is lucky.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

There is always the possibility that Rick is looking for millions in royalties and not billions in revenues.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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