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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:50 pm
by chrismb
TallDave wrote:We're certainly capable, as we recently proved when Saddam pissed us off once too often.
...and what was it, exactly, that he did to piss you off to lead *us* into an unprovoked attack on him in 2003?

The only thing I can see that would've pissed off America is that the new President's daddy had lost power whilst Saddam went from strength to strength (politically speaking). Yeah, I can see why that'd piss you off, and I can see why it was worth $XXtrillions. Sure, a real worth-while enterprise, to spend money on!

You're right, the middle east wasn't a problem of yours..... but you sure as heck made it one!

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:27 pm
by ladajo
"You're right, the middle east wasn't a problem of yours..... but you sure as heck made it one!"

Hmmm. So pressure from Europe about stability of the global econmy has no play in any of it. Maybe we should have stood aside and let Saddam continue the game. Iran, Kuwait, Saudi, Jordan, maybe Qatar, UAE, Syria down the road. Who knows. Things surely would have been better. Maybe Iraq, Iran and Isreal would have nuked each other and been done with it by now.

Historically speaking, it seems a lot of the issues in the world today are the result of intelligent insightful decisions by the UK and other European "Colonial" and/or occupying powers.

Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, Turkey, Balkans, India, Pakistan, Egypt, Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, and multiple other African vacation spots, Viet Nam, China, etc, etc. Funny how alot of these places have adopted British or European (and Soviet) style military uniforms. Gives some visibility on who had the biggest finger in the pot from days gone by.

One of the cool things about being the young country is you get to point your finger at the older countries for pre-existing and exacerbated issues.
Unfortunately, you also get sucked into those issues in an effort to help yourself (and maybe some friends).
One cannot be a hermit. Someone always seeks you out. If they don't, you are not really a hermit, you are just lost.

Lets take this theme to another thread in general. This is afterall suppossed to be for the FOIA.

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:34 pm
by chrismb
We already 'had' this thread and discussion about how Americans think America has solved so many world problems. Just go looking. It's all been said before. Basically, no-one can compare with the British! We left so much conflict behind us in all our old colonies that you guys are just begineers at causing problems!

I was just interested in this new idea that Saddam did something to piss Americans off. I'm just not sure what that was and am keen to 'learn'.....please do teach me...

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:42 pm
by ladajo
Yup, and I said the same thing in that thread.

Saddam pissed me off because I had to spend 6 months of my life chasing (and catching) UN Sanctions smugglers January to June of 2000 in the Arabian Gulf. I would rather have gone on a south seas cruise painting schools and cleaning up orphanages.

new thread in general

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:53 pm
by bcglorf
I wanna see what comes of the FOIA request, and follow the side discussion. I've created a new thread in general over America, Saddam and what ever related rabbit trails were ahead:

http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2033

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:57 pm
by KitemanSA
chrismb wrote:
TallDave wrote:We're certainly capable, as we recently proved when Saddam pissed us off once too often.
...and what was it, exactly, that he did to piss you off to lead *us* into an unprovoked attack on him in 2003?
He threatened to convert from the petro-dollar to the petro-euro... No, wait, that shouldn't have pulled you in. But it did! Ha ha ha ha ha ha! :twisted: :wink:

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:24 pm
by chrismb
ladajo wrote:Saddam pissed me off because I had to spend 6 months of my life chasing (and catching) UN Sanctions smugglers January to June of 2000 in the Arabian Gulf. I would rather have gone on a south seas cruise painting schools and cleaning up orphanages.

I mean, that is such a striking reason for spending trillions and getting a lot of people deaded that, wow, I'm kinda struck-dumb! :lol:

The only rational answer I can respond with is to say; so why didn't the UN piss you off equally for setting the sanctions?

KitemanSA wrote: He threatened to convert from the petro-dollar to the petro-euro... No, wait, that shouldn't have pulled you in. But it did! Ha ha ha ha ha ha! :twisted: :wink:
yeah, it'd be funny if it was just a joke.

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:21 pm
by MSimon
DeltaV wrote:chrismb,
Didn't mean to imply anti-Americanism on your part. That countdown flag just had me waxing patriotic.

chrismb wrote:If it's called 'computers' or 'software' or such, then you've done well.

Computers - Agreed (excluding HW designed specifically to run Windows, or having a Windows-influenced architecture, or easy to be hacked by ne'er-do-wells).

Software - No. Changing the 'Wait' cursor from an hourglass thingy to a spinning circle thingy over a quarter-century does not qualify as progress in my book. Why should I have to wait more than a few clock cycles if I'm not doing anything involving huge amounts of data? The servant should wait on the master, not vice versa. OOPs.


The "C" programming language is probably the best thing ever done to destroy software productivity.

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:49 am
by TallDave
...and what was it, exactly, that he did to piss you off to lead *us* into an unprovoked attack on him in 2003?


It was hardly unprovoked, he was firing on us (and you guys) almost daily. That's in addition to the many, many other violations of the 1991 cease-fire agreement.

Sigh, how quickly everyone forgets.

I mean, that is such a striking reason for spending trillions and getting a lot of people deaded that,


Actually, the war saved lives, and probably money. Containment wasn't free, and might have gone on for another 50 years or more (and it would have gotten more and more expensive; the sanctions regime was collapsing, Oil-For-Food had become a massive bribery scheme, and the Russians and Chinese would have happily rearmed him; eventually he'd have gotten nukes). And Saddam's regime killed an average of 3,000 to 7.000 people per month, far more than died in all but a couple months since 2003.

People too rarely consider opportunity costs. I think everyone should be forced to take some economics classes so they understand the concept.

For instance, the opportunity cost of not fully funding Polywell could turn out to be huge (see how I segued back on topic there?). Mabe the FOIA will shed some light on that question.

Who thinks the FOIA will produce neutron counts?

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:29 am
by MSimon
If the FOIA can produce neutron counts I propose we abandon the Polywell. :wink:

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:15 am
by KitemanSA
"This Grid Powered by FOIA!"

Somehow, I don't think so! :lol:

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:17 am
by KitemanSA

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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:19 pm
by DeltaV
Thrust verified on three main engines. Awaiting SRB ignition...

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:48 pm
by Aero
@ladajo
Do you expect to hear early in the morning, late in the afternoon, or is tomorrow just the day it is supposed to be dropped into snail mail?

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:52 pm
by ladajo
I am expecting an email w/attachment. Possibly followed up by snail mail.

Dunno when. But the dealine is COB tomorrow.
COB California time, as that is where the NAVAIR Weapons office is, and my FOIA Coordinator works there. (China Lake).