Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby Tom Ligon » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:03 am

What I really think about wind turbines:

I have a place near the Mount Storm power plant in West Virginia. This is a ginormous coal burner, some 3.6 GW if memory serves. It is fed by nearby strip mines, but does not provide power to WV. It is owned by Dominion Power, which serves Virginia. This is historically WV's fate ... to be exploited for out-of-state interests, with little to show for it. Mount Storm is the hub for several large strings of wind turbines, including one going in on our mountain. The last time I looked it up, the entire worldwide power generation capacity of the company putting in the wind turbines can't even come close to the capacity of Mount Storm. The trickle of power these things make is hilariously insignificant.

The NIMBYs are up in arms, and they're using a lot of arguments, of which I'd say about 2/3 are outright falsehoods. Among these, the things are ugly and hurt property values (not true, most people kinda think they are pretty and they have almost no effect on property values). Bird killers (early ones, lower to the ground and located in mountain passes were, but these are humongous tall things with lots of ground clearance operating on mountain ridges and not on migratory routes). Noisy (you can hear them if you try hard enough, and if your mindset is to go nuts if you can hear them you will probably succeed). Stuff like that.

What is actually happening ... the neighbors are being offered bribes ... an up front payment and a yearly payment once they are running, in hopes we will sit down and shut up. I know this because we got some of that money. And I have to wonder who pays for it because the amounts are pretty substantial.

My objection is that they're not going in on their real economic merits, but due to complex tax formulae and offsets, etc, that amount to political game playing and not sound economics. If they were a good idea, they wouldn't need this malarkey.

All that rant aside, I will admit that when the wind is going, they can throttle back the boilers at Mount Storm a little, and I only wish they could do more and do it more consistently.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby KitemanSA » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:12 am


happyjack27
Posts: 1435
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:21 pm


JoeP
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby JoeP » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:44 pm


ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby ladajo » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:56 pm

Is not the major angst for wind the offpeak storage/peak with low wind issue?

Why not do the pump the water up the mountain, and let it drain thing using wind (or other low load/low efficency when underloaded capacity at that moment) as the source?

Once you lose wind or have a surge need, you drain the water through turbines...
Once the need goes away or you want to store, you pump it back to the up again.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

happyjack27
Posts: 1435
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:59 pm


Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby Tom Ligon » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:24 pm


TallDave
Posts: 3114
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby TallDave » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:21 pm

n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

Skipjack
Posts: 6051
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby Skipjack » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:32 pm

In Austria we have quite a few things that we call "Speicherkraftwerk". It is small dams high up in the mountains. They pump the water up with excessive power during times of low load and then use it under high pressure to drive turbines during time of peak loads. Many of them also have a natural supply of water. It is quite effective and very environmentally friendly.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby ladajo » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:54 pm

That is exactly what I was talking about Skip. Couldn't remember the word, just the concept and application.
The power is lost anyway for offpeak wind or solar. It can also apply to loading underutilized stations that are running below peak efficiency. Why not capture some of it?
I can see that the underutilized peak efficiency stations may number crunch out as a loss, but for unbankable lost power, it only makes sense.

Thanks.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby ladajo » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:59 pm

I think that may be a good business idea.
Sell small wind turbines to homes that during off peak high wind cycles pump water up into a small water tower. This then can drain to a lower reservior via small water turbines to generate power when needed. A bunch of small turbines can make a decent kick for a home.

Kind of like dynamic windbraking if you will. I could even rig it for solar. It could also use compressed gas or a hydraulic accumulator instead of the water tank.
You could even rig the water tank to collect rainwater as a backup source of power.

Hmmm.

My idea! I said it here first! I intend to patent!
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Teahive
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:09 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby Teahive » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:38 am

1 m³ of water raised by 10m is 27.3Wh of stored energy, that's about an iPad battery. A few kWh of Li-ion batteries seem like a better option than a water tower.

Pumped hydro storage only makes sense where you have the potential for huge (and deep) natural reservoirs.

Skipjack
Posts: 6051
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby Skipjack » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:35 am

For small scale like home use a flywheel might be a better idea for energy storage. The system with water reservoirs makes sense for the very large scale (these artificial lakes are pretty big).

choff
Posts: 2432
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby choff » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:12 am

I've heard stories of people living off grid getting visits from local authorities. They either get told they have to pay extra taxes for using alternative energy, or they get told they can't live there anymore. Sometimes the bureaucrat says the neighbours are complaining, even if the nearest lives miles away.
CHoff

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby ladajo » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:24 pm

The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests