Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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happyjack27
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:31 pm

Yeah, that's part of why I said "REALLY?", because of the overt flame-baiting, among other things. I think we're done, though. As always, science and reason prevailed. Nothing to report, here.

KitemanSA
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby KitemanSA » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:22 pm


swamijake
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby swamijake » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:42 pm

Sorry, but you are drastically wrong. Wind until the system hits about 30% of system capacity is the cheapest form of new installed energy. Full system cost included. After 30% you run into challenges with frequency stability and balancing that require more expensive additions, but take a look at North America and show me the market that is nearing 30% installed capacity? A new Natural Gas build requires about $65 a MWh or a substantial capacity payment. No one is building new coal but if you did it would need about 75 to 80$ due to equipment required for Mercury control (sorbent injection and electrostatic precipitator, sulfur control is established and cheap) no one really knows for Nukes as the capital costs are a crap shoot, solar in the south west needs about $85, more with out tax credits, wind PPA's with tax credits are being signed at $23 a MWh. That tax credit has expired so new PPAs will be about 45-50$ a MWh. That price includes the wind farm paying for their interconnection, transmission build, system balancing charges and transmission services. If you aren't actively involved in the Utility sector as a developer or market participant, you really have no idea what you are talking about. I look at full financial models of this stuff every day. As for the other nonsense in this thread, I suggest it is time for this thread to die until there is an actual update in the Project Tracker.

Tom Ligon
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby Tom Ligon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:49 pm

To answer the question in your bottom line, to cut down fuel costs, of course.

I'm running solar heat and hot water at my WV cabin. During spring, fall, and summer I have as much hot water as I want about 90% of the time. During winter I at least get pre-heating to a useful extent. The rest of the time a small electric point-of-use HWH makes up the difference.

The capital equipment cost of needing two systems is the pain, but fuel savings can be worthwhile. And the sensible approach (which nobody on either side seems to consider these days) is to make decisions as to the value of a given system purely on economic grounds. Does it make economic sense or not?




[quote="KitemanSAWhich leads to the question... if wind requires full capacity back-up, why bother with wind at all? Can you say pay-offs?[/quote]

happyjack27
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:02 am

Kiteman, one word: batteries.

Current chemical battery technology is yes, unsuitable for this application, due to the very high load and capacity and most of all charge/discharge rate. But the energy can be stored by differently means, such as kinetically. The only real theoretical bottlenecks are entropy and material wear.

And as mentioned above, even without batteries; even without being able to store the surplus efficiently for later use, you still have a reduction in fuel consumption. At most battery technology can only double that (speaking in the aggregate, of course).

Now any external system costs such as transmission you can cancel out, because all energy sources share this. I know it's not that simple, since costs grow linearly with distance, but generally speaking, we're going to be near a statistical break-even. On frequency regulation, however, I'm not going to diminish that, and I'll put that into the cost associated with the energy provider. If you're not 60 hertz on the grid, you're losing energy at the end point. And the energy at the end point is what you're worth ( the cost of transmission being handled by supply and demand forces).

So that, in my mind, is a counterpoint to wind an solar that stands: the cost of making sure you get a 60hz signalust be absorbed by the energy supplier, or at least divide out proportionally ( since he law of large numbers will reduce the aggregate effect).


Having said that, fuel is still a finite resource as compared to wind and solar. As such it's supply/demand ratio is bound to increase in proportion to both and increasing demand and decreasing supply, while wind and solar supply/demand ratio will increase in proportion to demand, but the supply will remain relatively constant.

Which tells you that, purely from a greedy perspective, futures in non-Renewables are the better investment. :D

ladajo
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby ladajo » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:54 am

Sorry Bert, no news. But I would expect some soon. It would seem to be time.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby 93143 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:02 am


happyjack27
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:03 am


happyjack27
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:14 am


choff
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby choff » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:08 am

I'm hoping some day General Fusion has an open house and allows camera's, since I work around the Burnaby office all the time. As mentioned, using Kerrick makes coal a heck of a lot less messy, but you still need the oil and other byproducts even with fusion, Iran and Iraq are set to up production so it won't matter regardless.

Wind turbines and solar will always have their niche.
CHoff

choff
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby choff » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:08 am

I'm hoping some day General Fusion has an open house and allows camera's, since I work around the Burnaby office all the time. As mentioned, using Kerrick makes coal a heck of a lot less messy, but you still need the oil and other byproducts even with fusion, Iran and Iraq are set to up production so it won't matter regardless.

Wind turbines and solar will always have their niche.
CHoff

happyjack27
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:23 am

"In an online debate, someone will eventually say something like 'people have a right to believe whatever they want.' That will signal that the debate is over and that person has lost." - Phelps' Law
Last edited by happyjack27 on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

KitemanSA
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby KitemanSA » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:23 am


happyjack27
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby happyjack27 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:31 am


Tom Ligon
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Re: Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Postby Tom Ligon » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:45 am



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