Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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icarus
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:48 am

Postby icarus » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:05 am

ScottL wrote:Icarus, the previous two posts summarize perfectly how ridiculous and pathetic your arguments are again. If you're against the scientific process, I highly recommend you find elsewhere to dwell.


Okay, so now you've gone beyond name-calling to attempting to shut down dissent.

Two traits of pathological pseudo-science behaviour I seem to recall.

Shall I leave you now?

Only people who agree with your strongly held beliefs shall remain to comment on Talk-Polywell, you will be happy with that then?

Ask Art Carlson. He had the zeitgeist more nailed than I realised at the time it seems.

krenshala
Posts: 865
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III

Postby krenshala » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:30 am

While you definitely provide useful points for discussion and analysis by the rest of us, icarus, you also seem to try to do so as offensively as you can without being outright-offensive. I don't know if you do this on purpose or not, but that is how it appears. Others reply in kind, making the matter worse, unfortunately, so you are not the only one to blame.

Can we all just take the name calling down a notch or five and get back to the meat of the discussion?

Thank you.

choff
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Postby choff » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:08 am

The fact that they've been able to do 500 high power pulse shots without destroying WB8 could mean no trouble with cross field arching or paschen arching in general.
CHoff

mvanwink5
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Location: N.C. Mountains

Postby mvanwink5 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:55 am

I wonder if the testing up to now has been to certify the WB-8 for going to fuel. Could all the plasma testing up until recently been without fuel and been to verify containment and ion thermalization characteristics such as annealing? I am a big believer in safety and it might make sense to do all that is possible and that device control and safety is assured before fuel ok is given by the Navy. With this in mind, if the WB-8 and all supporting equipment is characterized and set up, perhaps fuel evaluation will be quick. Time to put a chimp in the rocket?
Best regards
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Postby seedload » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:24 pm

Some how "3 shots, confirmed scaling" would make me more optimistic than "500 shots, confirming scaling." Just saying.

500 shots seems like they have some pretty nasty question to deal with.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

ladajo
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Postby ladajo » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:31 pm

Or it is easy to operate, and they are adding depth to the statisitical database.

I also think they have been very careful to run it up slowly. And also, we have had no confirmation of fueling yet. Only plasmas. It would seem they are follow a distinct and well constructed path.

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Postby seedload » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:43 pm

ladajo wrote:Or it is easy to operate, and they are adding depth to the statisitical database.

I also think they have been very careful to run it up slowly. And also, we have had no confirmation of fueling yet. Only plasmas. It would seem they are follow a distinct and well constructed path.


Fair enough. Maybe my loss of optimism is more based on limited information and Nebel leaving. The fact that they have done 500 shots is certainly an indication of good engineering if nothing else.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

philcowans
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:04 pm

Postby philcowans » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:47 pm

seedload wrote:Some how "3 shots, confirmed scaling" would make me more optimistic than "500 shots, confirming scaling." Just saying.

500 shots seems like they have some pretty nasty question to deal with.


I wouldn't be so sure about that - if they're angling for funding for a larger scale device then the more experimental evidence the better - it all helps to show that the theory used to extrapolate expected power has some basis in reality.

TallDave
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm
Contact:

Postby TallDave » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:48 pm

bennmann wrote:Quarterly Activities/Project Description As of 3Q/2011, the WB-8 device has generated over 500 high power plasma shots. EMC2 is conducting tests on Wiffle-Ball plasma scaling law on plasma heating and confinement.

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/Re ... pId=212569


Great to get some news!!

500 shots is a whole lotta data. I'm guessing they started with helium, then moved to D-D. I wonder what kind of neutron counts they're getting now? We already know confinement is "excellent."

Re the # of tests -- keep in mind, this thing has many knobs. I'm not 100% sure how much they can play with things like virtual anode height at this point, but I'm sure they are greatly refining their understanding of how wiffleballs perform under various parameters. The more data they can get, the more predictive reliability they can get into their models.

WB-8.1 will be even more interesting if that's approved, then they can start playing with fuel mix, etc.

Man, I'd sure love to see some density interferometry on this puppy...
Last edited by TallDave on Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

KitemanSA
Posts: 6098
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Postby KitemanSA » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:50 pm

I m going WAY out on a limb here...

If you recall way back at the beginning of the planning for Recovery Act funds, the WB8 project was slated for about $2-$3M. All the sudden they got $8M+ with $4M more available for further work.

Is it possible that they did met their original estimate and completed their WB8 testing on 2-3M, found that things were good, and started increasing the well depth in stages... working up toward sufficient drive for pB&J? Is it possible that they are getting to WB8.1 within the already allocated WB8 money?

Hmmm...

Giorgio
Posts: 2640
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Postby Giorgio » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:57 pm

seedload wrote:The fact that they have done 500 shots is certainly an indication of good engineering if nothing else.

I warmly second that.

DeltaV
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:05 am

Postby DeltaV » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:00 pm

seedload wrote:Maybe my loss of optimism is more based on limited information and Nebel leaving.

Maybe theorist Nebel didn't really leave, but is on "sabbatical" until experimentalist Park collects a complete data set.
Once complete, Nebel may return to compare the data to his math model.

Giorgio
Posts: 2640
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Postby Giorgio » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:18 pm

DeltaV wrote:Maybe theorist Nebel didn't really leave, but is on "sabbatical" until experimentalist Park collects a complete data set.
Once complete, Nebel may return to compare the data to his math model.

It wouldn't make much sense to split a theorist and an experimentalist in the moment when they are finally collecting some real data.
That's when the synergy between the two figures can give the best results.

mvanwink5
Posts: 1715
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:07 am
Location: N.C. Mountains

Postby mvanwink5 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:19 pm

Sure doesn't look like the work slowed down when Dr. Nebel retired.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Ivy Matt
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 6:43 am

Postby Ivy Matt » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:03 pm

icarus wrote:How can anyone verify what they are claiming? Has there been any independent verification by a reputable source?

Independent verification that they've fired over 500 high power plasma shots, or independent verification that they're conducting tests on plasma scaling law, heating, and confinement?
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.


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