Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

[Ivy Matt]

Yeah, since the down turn the unobtanium suppliers have had a tough time! The 'something-from-nothing' machines that they used to share time on with the Financial Markets have all broken!!!

In hindsight, maybe I shouldn't have stolen Chris's thunder on the numbers. Not that I expected a positive interpretation of the report from him, but I was hoping for something a little more constructive. Like maybe:

Now that we "know" that WB-8 "operates as designed" and "is generating positive results", why is the WB-7 data still secret?

We have a English vs American Cultural thing going on here.

Snarkily expressed expectations of failure seem to be the dominant cultural motif in England.

I'm not certain of that. Americans are no strangers to snarkily-expressed expectations of failure. Perhaps my understanding is outdated, but I would expect a typically English reaction to be a bit more understated. Like:

"Well, that's lovely news, I'm sure, but I won't be shorting coal futures just yet."

[rcain]

Snarkily expressed expectations of failure seem to be the dominant cultural motif in England.

.. it was our secret weapon, won WWII - there i've mentioned it - may as well consider this thread futile from here on in.

[pbreed]

I live in San Diego and when I'm driving near EMC^2 I sometimes drive around their building. Today the garage door was open.

The following was my impression gotten in a 5 second glance.

About 1/2 the machine was covered in what looked like insulation, or shielding. Whatever it was it was made up of flat panels. Dark brown or black.

1/2 the machine was bare stainless, so I suspect that the other was insulation for the cryogenic parts. They still have the large LN2 Dewar outside.

I saw no sign of any shielding on the doors or on the visible office partition. This means either EMC^2 is not making as many neutrons or are not as careful as the LPP guys that have their machine in a shielded room.

I've been tempted to drive by with a camera and take a picture, but I have been unable to google myself an answer to the question, "if you take a picture from public land into an open door is that considered public or not public?" Any authoritative references on this could induce me to snap a picture next time I'm in the area.

[D Tibbets]

Or it might propt them to close the door...

As far as shielding, my speculation is that they are several orders of magnitude in neutron production lower than FF. Focus fusion has reported neutron counts of several hundred billion (or is that trillion?) per brief test.
EMC2's WB 8 might make similar amount of neutrons from D-D burning per second of running. WB 6 output was extrapolated to ~ 500 million neutrons per second, but the machine actually ran for less than a millisecond. So actual neutron output was ~ 100 to 200 thousand per test. WB8 should be a few thousand times above this, perhaps 10-30 thousand times above this if they push the drive voltage enough. That would still only be ~ 3 billion neutrons per test, unless they prolong the duration of the tests significantly. That would translate into about 1 % of the neutron dose per test compared to FF results to date.
Also, I suspect FF is planning to push further with their current setup.

X ray flux from the FF tests may also be considerably higher, at least during certain tests.

Dan Tibbets.

[Giorgio]

I've been tempted to drive by with a camera and take a picture, but I have been unable to google myself an answer to the question, "if you take a picture from public land into an open door is that considered public or not public?" Any authoritative references on this could induce me to snap a picture next time I'm in the area.

Here are some info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photograph ... _rights-36

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

Private property

* Photography may be prohibited and/or restricted within an area of property by the property owner. At the same time, a property owner generally cannot restrict the photographing of their property by individuals who are not located within the bounds of the property.

Privacy issues

* Photographing private property from within the public domain is legal, with the exception of an area that is generally regarded as private, such as a bedroom, bathroom, or hotel room. In some states, there is no definition of "private," in which case there is a general expectation of privacy. Should the subjects not attempt to conceal their private affairs, their actions immediately become public to a photographer using an average lens or video camera.

If you really want to go deep into the issue:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... rtpkrag-20
"Legal Handbook for Photographers: The Rights and Liabilities of Making Images."

Hope it will help to clarify your doubts.

[ladajo]

I think that you are good, especially if the door is open. Now that you've said it, it will be closed all the time

Taking a photo while walking or driving down the street is not illegal nor controlled. Being in public view denotes public access consent IMHO.

[Giorgio]

Yes, that is what, more or less, everyone is reporting.
There are anyhow exceptions for Military Installations. One should understand if a private company working under a military grant can be considered a military installation or not.
I am convinced of NO, but I will leave these considerations to you guys.

[Enginerd]

Taking a photo while walking or driving down the street is not illegal nor controlled. Being in public view denotes public access consent IMHO.

California's latest anti-paparazzi law provides harsher penalties for photographers found breaking traffic laws or interfering with the operation of a celebrity’s car while in pursuit of a photo... So do try to not cause any traffic accidents while stalking their facility.

[Betruger]

Not that you should hurry to your next impromptu drive-by glance, but I wouldn't take too long to have another look. They'll find out about this sooner than later and probably keep a vehicle parked in the way or something.

[seedload]

I live in San Diego and when I'm driving near EMC^2 I sometimes drive around their building. Today the garage door was open.

The following was my impression gotten in a 5 second glance.

About 1/2 the machine was covered in what looked like insulation, or shielding. Whatever it was it was made up of flat panels. Dark brown or black.

1/2 the machine was bare stainless, so I suspect that the other was insulation for the cryogenic parts. They still have the large LN2 Dewar outside.

I saw no sign of any shielding on the doors or on the visible office partition. This means either EMC^2 is not making as many neutrons or are not as careful as the LPP guys that have their machine in a shielded room.

I've been tempted to drive by with a camera and take a picture, but I have been unable to google myself an answer to the question, "if you take a picture from public land into an open door is that considered public or not public?" Any authoritative references on this could induce me to snap a picture next time I'm in the area.

You open the garage door when you run your car so the carbon monoxide doesn't build up.

Similarly, they are obviously opening the garage door so that all those pesky neutrons can escape. No shielding necessary.

[Tom Ligon]

We used to run with the bay doors open when I was at the Carrol Canyon lab. What's to see? Pipes, wires, batteries, PCs, a couple of racks of equipment?

The small table with the green gadget on top and the foot treadle underneath is my old spot welder.

You might scratch your head wondering what the cattle watering trough is for.

You guys already have seen drawings of the intended design and seen the old equipment pics. The fine details changed on this one, if any, are not likely to be visible. Even the data won't help much if they are running diluted fuel to keep the neutron levels safe.

But be assured, I'd take a peek if I had the opportunity.

[D Tibbets]

Dilluted fuel (eg: 1 part deuterium to 10 parts hydrogen) is an interesting possibility. For that matter they may be running helium. They may not have aimed at actual fusion measurements yet.

That brings up the question - What is the crossection for P-D (proton- deuterium) fusion. It is the the second step in PP fusion in stars and is much faster than the ~ 10^-45 Barns for rate limiting step. how does it compare to D-D fusion? 1 millionth, 1 trillionth,...?

Dan Tibbets

[MSimon]

Snarkily expressed expectations of failure seem to be the dominant cultural motif in England.

The Brit "scientists" in the Beatles Movie Help! is a fine example.

[bennmann]

Except for Dr. Who, insane optimism might be his appeal and why as an American I love him.

[Ivy Matt]

You might scratch your head wondering what the cattle watering trough is for.

Watering cattle?