Recovery.Gov Project Tracker

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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hanelyp
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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Post by hanelyp »

https://www.neco.navy.mil/synopsis_file ... ted_JA.pdf looks like the server uses a self signed certificate. Not a problem unless you intend to send sensitive data to the server. But all the major web browsers raise an abundance of warning. Just tell the browser to proceed anyway.

hanelyp
Posts: 2257
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Post by hanelyp »

Some statements caught my eye:
During the course of the contracted study several anomalies related to how electrons were fed into the device were discovered.
So an area where more study is required. Joe is sure to jump on that one.
The experimental results to date were consistent with the underlying theoretical framework of the Polywell fusion concept...
The anticipated timeframe of this technology going into production is another four or five years from now.
Not near as much detail as we'd like, but sounds like good news to me.

Betruger
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

funny-once joke, optimistic-once projection

Post by Betruger »

Unless they find yet more anomalies.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

mvanwink5
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Location: N.C. Mountains

Post by mvanwink5 »

Robthebob wrote:...They have problems pumping electrons into the system? Their electron gun isnt big enough? that just sounds weird to the point that it's almost funny. Just if they know what well depth they're going to try to get, they should know around what type of drive voltage the gun need to be able to have...
I think this was brought up before, but Bussard wanted to go to the demonstration machine because of potential trouble in pushing electrons into the WB. In a larger machine, the electrons will predominantly come from the ionization of fuel. So, EMC2 is having to solve problems for the smaller machine that won't be relevant for the larger machine. At least that is my thought on this issue. Also, in previous .Gov reports, this gun size issue is supposed to be behind them and they have been in testing phase now with those guns. So, the project extension money and time should be in the context of that preliminary test experience (at least a quarter), which in my rose colored glasses is encouraging. Coincidentally, the .Gov reports have stopped updating, just our bad luck.
Best regards
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Robthebob
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Location: Auburn, Alabama

Post by Robthebob »

building a new electron gun and continue the experiment takes 5 million dollars?

Where was the issue of electron gun size ever brought up? Just feels like this is the first time I've heard about it. Also, I thought they're almost done with all the testing phase and will be doing demo plant design and other things about now, it's still gonna be another 4 to 5 years until they start doing that? Or maybe I'm not reading it right. Does production mean after demo plant or before demo plant?

Keep waiting. Overall good news though, the fact that the scaling all seem to work, even at high beta. I'm guessing the high field made it difficult for the electrons to go into the system, so they havent actually done much if any experiments at high beta with high fields, because... they couldnt. So now they already finish making the gun, they're gonna do some more shots at high beta with high field, and see what happens there.

Later (finally) will be designing demo plant and building it, when we see Navy rewarding 15 times the number of what they've been rewarding to emc2, we'll know they're doing it, for real this time.
Throwing my life away for this whole Fusion mess.

Mike_P
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 4:16 pm
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Post by Mike_P »

It could be that I wasn't paying attention before, but has the sponsoring naval facility always been the folks out at China lake? The second to last line on page 1 talks about a long term goal of "clean nuclear energy source". The folks out at China lake (a misnomer since it is really a high desert) are all about weapons testing, not clean energy. Remember that this is also the same place that successfully tested the ground based laser gun against a missile target.

DeltaV
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Post by DeltaV »

ladajo wrote:And as further evidence...

FBO
Not as healing as actual data would be, but the twitching is beginning to subside somewhat... five years... five years...

krenshala
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III

Post by krenshala »

Mike_P wrote:It could be that I wasn't paying attention before, but has the sponsoring naval facility always been the folks out at China lake? The second to last line on page 1 talks about a long term goal of "clean nuclear energy source". The folks out at China lake (a misnomer since it is really a high desert) are all about weapons testing, not clean energy. Remember that this is also the same place that successfully tested the ground based laser gun against a missile target.
A clean nuclear energy source would be extremely useful to the testing at China Lake, especially considering the type of testing (railgun, FEL, etc). Testing using those devices would also allow stuff like "... ran all this stuff and we still have X power available for use on the rest of a ship!" (Yeah, I'm being excessively positive on this. Its that kind of morning. ;) )

Mike_P
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Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Post by Mike_P »

People, please remember that the purpose of this form is to allow China Lake to use a single source vendor for what it wants. Opening the supply contract to the normal bidding process would also expose a lot more details about the project as well as introduce considerably more delays.

When the Navy says 4 to 5 years this is a date with a safe margin that it is being passed up the chain of command. If they were being conservative then China Lake padded the date by 30%. If the people at EMC2 are wise they also padded the date by 25 to 30%. So IMHO I would say the real date that EMC2 and the customers at China Lake have in their heads is probably 2 to 3 years.

Given the low key dollars that are being spent at a place that spends $$$ on toys that generally blow up I'm thinking that there is another pacing project that this power source will be used for. Since the primary project is not ready then there is no rush on finishing the power source for it.
Eschew Obfuscation or at least "Push the button, Max!"

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by choff »

My take is that if the stronger magnetic fields make it tougher getting electrons into the machine core, it's going to be just as tough for the electrons trying to get out.
CHoff

Tom Ligon
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Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Post by Tom Ligon »

Way back in the early 90's they thought there would be two ways to build a wiffle-ball. One was to inject the electrons and then build up the magnetic field. That's not the easiest power control problem but it certainly can be done and is an option.

ltgbrown
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Location: Belgium

Post by ltgbrown »

I'm thinking that there is another pacing project that this power source will be used for. Since the primary project is not ready then there is no rush on finishing the power source for it.
Regardless of a pacing project, the need and ability to make use is there now. Remember all the articles linked to about high power electric motors for an all electric drive system? Don't forget, the SPY radar takes a lot of power. EMALS takes a lot of electricity.

Railguns and FELs are not going to hold back the introduction of something like a Polywell burning PB11. Even if there was some other fantastical project (energy shield as an example of a FANTASTICAL project), the need for a cheap, small (relatively speaking), light weight (relatively), dynamic power source that doesn't require refueling for months or years at a time is there now. Desperately now to be honest.

The implications of having an all Polywell powered burning PB11 Navy are difficult to grasp or overstate. And that's without railguns, FELs, or some other fantastical (read: classified) capability.
Famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

Mike_P
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Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Post by Mike_P »

ltgbrown wrote:
I'm thinking that there is another pacing project that this power source will be used for. Since the primary project is not ready then there is no rush on finishing the power source for it.
Regardless of a pacing project, the need and ability to make use is there now. Remember all the articles linked to about high power electric motors for an all electric drive system? Don't forget, the SPY radar takes a lot of power. EMALS takes a lot of electricity.

Railguns and FELs are not going to hold back the introduction of something like a Polywell burning PB11. Even if there was some other fantastical project (energy shield as an example of a FANTASTICAL project), the need for a cheap, small (relatively speaking), light weight (relatively), dynamic power source that doesn't require refueling for months or years at a time is there now. Desperately now to be honest.

The implications of having an all Polywell powered burning PB11 Navy are difficult to grasp or overstate. And that's without railguns, FELs, or some other fantastical (read: classified) capability.
I can understand the need at a macro level for the Navy in general. Funding for military research projects tends to be on the micro level where information can be silo'ed for security purposes. As a result things like a practical general purpose fusion reactor are not normally asked for. Instead, individual application projects ask for the same kind of things that other projects ask for without knowing that there was a duplication in their requests. China Lake doesn't do research on general power systems. I would expect that to come from one of major Naval yards back east. What I expect is more likely is that one or more weapons programs have asked for a substantial power source that is mobile and doesn't have the nasty side effects of radiation.
Eschew Obfuscation or at least "Push the button, Max!"

GWW57
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Post by GWW57 »

I read it as:

This is going to cost more and take longer.
We are not going to ask another company to take over because that will entail even more time and money.
We have done our due diligence to ensure that this project has a chance of delivering.
We want this to deliver a product, so we should continue to support it.

KitemanSA
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Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

Folks,
Please read the FIRST PARAGRAPH. This action is to increasse the time allowed. There is no indication of MORE money. The 5ishM$ is what has always been on the contract as the option.

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