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Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:26 pm
by D Tibbets
I recall a program on this on public TV ("NOVA"?). Some guy lead a team that drilled a deep hole in Sweeden with considerable technical difficulty, and did not find the oil quanities predicted. I don't recall any discussion about the left/right hand nature of any oil they did find. I don't think he admitted defeat, just that more holes needed to be drilled.
Dan Tibbets
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:28 pm
by Giorgio
MirariNefas wrote:It looks like one of those "always just out of reach" deals.
Again, the universe is not out to get you. God isn't trying to trick us. Just because something has been difficult in the past and new barriers have been discovered, doesn't mean there's an infinite number of barriers waiting to pop up the harder we look.
I completely agree with this.
Just because a good idea fits our current model of understanding of it does not mean that is correct. Only by testing our knowledge we can prove or disprove it and get new ideas to test.
After all this is what science is all about.
Giorgio.
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:52 pm
by MSimon
D Tibbets wrote:
I recall a program on this on public TV ("NOVA"?). Some guy lead a team that drilled a deep hole in Sweeden with considerable technical difficulty, and did not find the oil quanities predicted. I don't recall any discussion about the left/right hand nature of any oil they did find. I don't think he admitted defeat, just that more holes needed to be drilled.
Dan Tibbets
One thing they did find was oil where current geological thing said that there was unlikely to be any.
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:44 am
by pbelter
Shubedobedubopbopbedo wrote:
Even if peak oil happens 100 years from now, or 1000 years from now, …
If Thomas Gold was right that oil is a leftover form the planet formation process, then the above statement is as true as saying that if we continue building concrete buildings we are going to run out of sand. For all practical purposes oil may be a renewable resource, the same way solar power is. One day sun is going to run out of fuel too, but for practical purposes it doesn’t matter.
The oil may be inaccessible right now due to limitations of current technology, but laser drilling is being worked on, and it will be much cheaper and much deeper than the current mechanical techniques.
http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/200 ... lling.html
So far the major limitation was the shortages of the laser technology, and the need for expensive and inefficient chemical lasers, but that is changing too. Military developed a 100 KW electrical laser earlier this year. One day it will be accessible on the civilian market…
http://www.laserfocusworld.com/display_ ... 00-kW-mark
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:36 pm
by chrismb
MirariNefas wrote:doesn't mean there's an infinite number of barriers waiting to pop up the harder we look.
No. Just a few insurmountable ones, perhaps...
The universe isn't out to trick us, that is true. The universe is simply oblivious to our existence and gives us no sustenance. We must sieze what we can and ingeniously create what we will.
Whether we can always do all that we imagine we can do is philosophically and religiously [Genesis 11:6] debatable, but is surely not scientifically true.
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:46 pm
by MSimon
pbelter wrote:Shubedobedubopbopbedo wrote:
Even if peak oil happens 100 years from now, or 1000 years from now, …
If Thomas Gold was right that oil is a leftover form the planet formation process, then the above statement is as true as saying that if we continue building concrete buildings we are going to run out of sand. For all practical purposes oil may be a renewable resource, the same way solar power is. One day sun is going to run out of fuel too, but for practical purposes it doesn’t matter.
The oil may be inaccessible right now due to limitations of current technology, but laser drilling is being worked on, and it will be much cheaper and much deeper than the current mechanical techniques.
http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/200 ... lling.html
So far the major limitation was the shortages of the laser technology, and the need for expensive and inefficient chemical lasers, but that is changing too. Military developed a 100 KW electrical laser earlier this year. One day it will be accessible on the civilian market…
http://www.laserfocusworld.com/display_ ... 00-kW-mark
There are other techniques that are already close to deploying. I was looking for a url for a flame drilling experiment but couldn't find it.
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:14 pm
by MirariNefas
chrismb wrote:MirariNefas wrote:doesn't mean there's an infinite number of barriers waiting to pop up the harder we look.
No. Just a few insurmountable ones, perhaps...
The universe isn't out to trick us, that is true. The universe is simply oblivious to our existence and gives us no sustenance. We must sieze what we can and ingeniously create what we will.
Whether we can always do all that we imagine we can do is philosophically and religiously [Genesis 11:6] debatable, but is surely not scientifically true.
Absolutely. And notice I'm not using this argument for faster-than-light travel or perpetual motion. I'm not arguing that we can make an engine surpass the Carnot efficiency of its heat reservoirs, or run on water and good feelings.
Any unexplored possible process for achieving a goal may have some insurmountable practical barriers somewhere in there. So what? Pointless statement. If you want to predict insurmountable barriers, you need actual reasons to do so.
To MSimon, yes, we should not have all our eggs in the tokamak basket. I too am a lot more excited about the possibility of cheaper faster and aneutronic fusion. But if all the longshots start kicking up their own barriers, I'm glad we can fall back on a process that we understand in greater detail.
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:00 pm
by doug l
MSimon. Here's a link to Potter Drilling which has developed an innovative heat drill. Maybe this is what you were referring to.
http://www.potterdrilling.com/
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:30 pm
by Shubedobedubopbopbedo
Of course oil is renewable. Take heat and high pressure, add organic substances, wait 50 million years. And fusion does NOT work. You people really are delusional.
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:35 pm
by Shubedobedubopbopbedo
chrismb wrote:MirariNefas wrote:doesn't mean there's an infinite number of barriers waiting to pop up the harder we look.
No. Just a few insurmountable ones, perhaps...
The universe isn't out to trick us, that is true. The universe is simply oblivious to our existence and gives us no sustenance. We must sieze what we can and ingeniously create what we will.
Whether we can always do all that we imagine we can do is philosophically and religiously [Genesis 11:6] debatable, but is surely not scientifically true.
WTF does that mean? Using twisted logic is a good sign you're having trouble finding a basis for your delusion.
There is a reason, IMO, there is so much space out there. It's so we'll fight it out amongst ourselves. And since that's what we do, then rightly so. Even if there was a way to travel to the stars, it shouldn't be built. Humanity should rot. This universe is exactly the kind of universe for us. We evolved here and it suits us.
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:02 am
by Betruger
Humanity should rot? What straight logic leads to that assertion?
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:34 am
by kurt9
I think Gold was wrong about petroleum. However, he is most certainly correct with regards to natural gas (methane and ethane).
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:48 am
by MSimon
Doug,
Thanks for that. However, continued searching helped me to find it. So I did a post:
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... emand.html
And
http://bittooth.blogspot.com/ tells me that Potter got $5 million from DOE to do some drilling.
You can find his comment here:
http://bittooth.blogspot.com/2009/10/is ... l#comments
As to our insane-o-maniac. Reminds me of a feller we had a while back who got himself banned. The only banning in the history of this board. His handle: isochroma. You can search it if you want to see some really ugly stuff.
I will just say this about that. We are products of supernovas and belong among the stars. When you grow up you get to leave home. Mamas boys want to stay home with mama.
===
So you see my arrogance, caustic wit, and general snarkiness does come in handy from time to time. ;-)
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:59 am
by MSimon
Wednesday 20th May 2009
Oxford Catalysts Signs MOU with Potter Drilling, Inc.
Oxford Catalysts Group PLC, the leading innovator for clean fuels, is pleased to announce that it has entered into a memorandum of understanding (“MOU”) with Potter Drilling, Inc. (“Potter Drilling”), a google.org funded company, to explore the incorporation of Oxford Catalysts' Instant Steam technology into Potter Drilling's hydrothermal spallation drilling technology (“technology”) to use superheated fluid for drilling through hard rocks.
Under the terms of the MOU, the two companies are evaluating an application to generate the necessary heat for use in Potter Drilling's drilling tool for geothermal wells.
Geothermal wells can be slow and expensive to drill using conventional rotary drilling methods due to the fact that wells are often sunk deep into hard crystalline rocks which are difficult and slow to penetrate and which quickly wear down the drill bits. Potter Drilling's technology overcomes these problems by using superheated fluid to drill through the rocks, rather than relying on the abrasive cutting power of a rotating drill bit.
The technology that is being tested will require Oxford Catalysts’ Instant Steam catalyst to be contained within the drill head to help produce the superheated fluid that is necessary. Oxford Catalysts' technology involves passing a liquid fuel over a proprietary catalyst. This triggers a spontaneous and highly exothermic reaction whilst releasing high temperature steam. Potter Drilling intends to undertake field trials next year.
http://www.oxfordcatalysts.com/press/ne ... 090520.php
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:32 am
by Shubedobedubopbopbedo
MSimon wrote:As to our insane-o-maniac. Reminds me of a feller we had a while back who got himself banned. The only banning in the history of this board. His handle: isochroma. You can search it if you want to see some really ugly stuff.
I will just say this about that. We are products of supernovas and belong among the stars. When you grow up you get to leave home. Mamas boys want to stay home with mama.
You've only banned one person because this board is virtually unknown doesn't have many people posting on it. Hell, its been a year since I even bothered.
You need to see the bigger picture. You will never get 7 billion people to grow up all at the same time. Some of them aren't even grown-ups. You see, your metaphor can be twisted any way, to any interpretation.
As for belonging among the stars, if that were true life would have evolved in space. Factually, we belong on Earth. Its the only place we can survive without machines to keep us alive.
As for being alive, we suck at it. Read the news anytime in the last 10000-odd years? Same crap every day.