EEStor news

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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parallel
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by parallel »

Giorgio,
money will pour on you from every place to solve the 90% engineering issue.
You must work for the government if you think money will solve everything.

clonan
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:16 pm

Post by clonan »

energyfan wrote: they don't have it, they should have been all over the news by now and doing advertising if they made what they said
Or they are facing "significant engineering problems" and know it will take a while to resolve regardless of how much money they have.

By not proving to the world that what they claim is physically acheivable, they reduce the ability of other people getting the funding necessary to develop a similar technology.

What is the point in advertising if you have nothing to sell? They don't have product to sell and don't want to sell equity or debt. Advertising costs money and or time. Why bother unless you can make money off of it?


Now generally I think they will probably deliver an ultra capacitor with 1/2 the capabilities for double the price. But this is based on the physics NOT the way they run the business. I could see doing exactly the same thing if I were in their position.

D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Post by D Tibbets »

clonan wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
Show the working prototype, and money will pour on you from every place to solve the 90% engineering issue.

You can twist it the way you want, but this is the way the real world works.

Assuming they WANT money coming in from everywhere.

If they think they already have essentially all the resources they need AND if they think no one can beat them to it, there is no reason at all to dilute thier personal investment by accepting un-needed money from elsewhere.

They will end up creating a mini museum in thier headquarters with all the prototypes AFTER they start selling them wholesale.
Time is essential to a bussness plan. I believe they have 17 years before a patent expires. It will take years for the matket to develope after a device becomes aviable. Any method to shorten the discovery to engeenering to product production time spand would be extreamely attractive. Revelation of a prototype only makes sense. The only reasonable excuss I can think of for not doing this (other than fraud) is that some process step is uncertain enough that they cannot patent it, and the entire project is judged to be useless without that step. That combined with a fear that someone else might diacover this process step and excessively dillute their desired earnings potential.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

clonan
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:16 pm

Post by clonan »

D Tibbets wrote:
clonan wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
Show the working prototype, and money will pour on you from every place to solve the 90% engineering issue.

You can twist it the way you want, but this is the way the real world works.

Assuming they WANT money coming in from everywhere.

If they think they already have essentially all the resources they need AND if they think no one can beat them to it, there is no reason at all to dilute thier personal investment by accepting un-needed money from elsewhere.

They will end up creating a mini museum in thier headquarters with all the prototypes AFTER they start selling them wholesale.
Time is essential to a bussness plan. I believe they have 17 years before a patent expires. It will take years for the matket to develope after a device becomes aviable. Any method to shorten the discovery to engeenering to product production time spand would be extreamely attractive. Revelation of a prototype only makes sense. The only reasonable excuss I can think of for not doing this (other than fraud) is that some process step is uncertain enough that they cannot patent it, and the entire project is judged to be useless without that step. That combined with a fear that someone else might diacover this process step and excessively dillute their desired earnings potential.

Dan Tibbets
Or...

They have already been developing ready markets for the maximum they can reliably scale the facility up to...say an automotive company and a weapons developer...

So they know that as soon as they have product to sell they will be able to sell EVERYTHING they can make. Why assure that your earning potential is dropped by half (by soliciting external funds) when you are only risking a year of production....

16 years of 100% equity or 17 years of 50% equity... What is better?

In addition, they aren't likely to have someone come up with a similar product because there are so many questions around the physics that no one else is doing significant development along these lines.


But if they PROVE to the world that the concept is good then they will have people crawling out of the woodwork trying to do the same thing only just different enough to avoid the patent. They would have to commit resources protecting the patent instead of development.

All this boils down to either they are very lousy fraudsters or they think they have something real...

parallel
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by parallel »

All this boils down to either they are very lousy fraudsters or they think they have something real...
It is certainly a funny way of going about fraud. Spending money on the project and not looking for any more investments...

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Post by Giorgio »

parallel wrote:Giorgio,
money will pour on you from every place to solve the 90% engineering issue.
You must work for the government if you think money will solve everything.
Sorry to disappoint you, I have my own company and never worked under or for the government.

As for engineering issues, yes, money will solve everything, provided that the prototype does work.
All this eestor story looks more and more like the Steorn Orbo.

D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Post by D Tibbets »

parallel wrote:
All this boils down to either they are very lousy fraudsters or they think they have something real...
It is certainly a funny way of going about fraud. Spending money on the project and not looking for any more investments...


True.
Perhaps (pure unsupported speculation) ego could also be a factor. Their data may be so close to the noise floor, that they have convinced themselves of the validity of the system, but are unwilling to risk possibly adverse criticism That, and/or fear of someone else stealing their thunder and profits my drive their closed shop.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

parallel
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by parallel »

Their data may be so close to the noise floor
That seems highly unlikely. How much the permittivity goes down with voltage is really the only thing under dispute, and here we are talking about orders of magnitude, not something that might be confused with noise.

EricF
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Location: Pell City, Alabama

Post by EricF »

Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of new years 'deadline' on these capacitors?

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Post by Giorgio »

Yes, but they didn't specify "which" new year they was talking about.

parallel
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by parallel »

EricF wrote:Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of new years 'deadline' on these capacitors?
There never was an official delivery date, mainly a leaked conversation from Weir saying he expected to deliver in the fourth quarter.

There were several broad hints that delivery of an EESU would be before the end of 2009, but Zenn have made it clear that they would not report receipt until after third party verification of performance - that might take a month.

Not good news for sure, but not the end of hope. Several other "interesting" signs, such as Zenn arranging for Standard & Poors to report for them, the share price holding after the end of the year and two purchases of 350,000 share blocks in December.

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