Zero point energy, hu?

[kurt9]

CalPhysics is Bernard Haisch's website. Haisch, Putoff, and Davis are the guys who are into the ZPF concept. Their organization is EarthTech (www.earthtech.org), where they have many presentations available for download. These guys and their ZPF theory is sort of a competitor to Woodward, March, and others working on the MLT.

As with everything else, the proof is in the pudding. Their case means that they are able to fabricate any one of their proposed MEMS devices and show that can generate energy in the manner they claim it will.

BTW, Earthtech's main activity appears to be falsification of cold fusion claims. I have corresponded with one of their guys (Scott Little), who seems to be quite level-headed about any of this stuff.

Interesting, I've corresponded with Haisch a for a few years. I wouldn't take them as competitors, as they are the only ones who really are consistently working on stochastic electrodynamics theories of inertia.

What I ment by competition is that they have a competing theory to that of Woodward/March for explaning the origin of inertia.

[gblaze42]

Interesting, I've corresponded with Haisch a for a few years. I wouldn't take them as competitors, as they are the only ones who really are consistently working on stochastic electrodynamics theories of inertia.

What I ment by competition is that they have a competing theory to that of Woodward/March for explaning the origin of inertia.

I understand, what I was saying is that they've looked at most ZPE theories, including Woodward/March. They do have their own theory of inertia which IMHO has a stronger theory.

[kurt9]

I agree that their theory is more solid than that of Woodward and March. However, one problem I have about ZPE is that there appears to be no naturally occurring phenomenon based on this process. Both chemical and nuclear energy production occur as natural phenomenon. It seems to me that if ZPE was real, that there should be some natural occurrence of it that we could see through our telescopes.

I downloaded and read their patent on their ZPE devices. They are all MEMS devices that look like they can be easily fabricated by any MEMS foundry without spending a huge amount of money. If they have, say, $200k finance (like I think they do), this should be sufficient money to design a simple prototype device and have it fabricated by any one of a large number of MEMS foundry services that are available in this country. MEMS design software is available for $8,000 or so per license. Also, many universities have MEMS fabs that are available to outside researchers for a nominal fee (around $4,000 per month). I know several biotech start-ups who are using Stanford's MEMS facility to fabricate their prototypes.

[scareduck]

Anybody selling ZPE machines is a science crank, a fraudster, or both.

I find it frankly disappointing that this subject keeps coming up here, and attracting so much interest.

[gblaze42]

I agree that their theory is more solid than that of Woodward and March. However, one problem I have about ZPE is that there appears to be no naturally occurring phenomenon based on this process. Both chemical and nuclear energy production occur as natural phenomenon. It seems to me that if ZPE was real, that there should be some natural occurrence of it that we could see through our telescopes.

Well considering that 95% of what the universe is, we haven't seen as yet, there is some room for new discoveries.
Also ZPF as I would call it, can been seen via Casimir effect.

I downloaded and read their patent on their ZPE devices. They are all MEMS devices that look like they can be easily fabricated by any MEMS foundry without spending a huge amount of money. If they have, say, $200k finance (like I think they do), this should be sufficient money to design a simple prototype device and have it fabricated by any one of a large number of MEMS foundry services that are available in this country. MEMS design software is available for $8,000 or so per license. Also, many universities have MEMS fabs that are available to outside researchers for a nominal fee (around $4,000 per month). I know several biotech start-ups who are using Stanford's MEMS facility to fabricate their prototypes.

Well hopefully if they can make a case for a study they could get a grant to do it. It would be interesting to see at the very least.

[gblaze42]

Anybody selling ZPE machines is a science crank, a fraudster, or both.

I find it frankly disappointing that this subject keeps coming up here, and attracting so much interest.

You need to read more, no one said anything about selling ZPE machines, just some theoretical work being done that's all.

[scareduck]

Anybody selling ZPE machines is a science crank, a fraudster, or both.

I find it frankly disappointing that this subject keeps coming up here, and attracting so much interest.

You need to read more, no one said anything about selling ZPE machines, just some theoretical work being done that's all.

YOU need to read more closely. The whole thread got started with a link to a story titled "Jovion Corporation Gets Patent for Zero Point Energy Extraction" which makes claims that sound awfully like they're near commercial viability:

This is a funded company that is a technology spin-off of research from the University of Colorado.
...
Jovion Corporation of Boulder aims to develop and commercialize a device for extracting energy from the reservoir of “zero point energy” that has been shown to fill all of space.
...

So it's just more of the same. There are probably legitimate inquiries in this area, but it's absolutely overwhelmed by science cranks.

[kurt9]

This is a funded company that is a technology spin-off of research from the University of Colorado.
...
Jovion Corporation of Boulder aims to develop and commercialize a device for extracting energy from the reservoir of “zero point energy” that has been shown to fill all of space.
...

So it's just more of the same. There are probably legitimate inquiries in this area, but it's absolutely overwhelmed by science cranks.

I agree with you that almost everything under the rubric of ZPE is either fraud or self-delusion.

However, I have been following the guys who set up Jovion (Haisch, Rueda, etc.) for many years and they appear to be real. They have what appears to be a credible theory and are pursing development based on that theory. These guy are the only people I consider to be "real" working in this field. I am very skeptical of their theory and do not think they will get anywhere. However, I do not think they are frauds or cranks.

I think that Haisch's and Rueda's theory is as legitimate as Woodward's and March's Mach's principle.

[gblaze42]

You need to read more, no one said anything about selling ZPE machines, just some theoretical work being done that's all.

YOU need to read more closely. The whole thread got started with a link to a story titled "Jovion Corporation Gets Patent for Zero Point Energy Extraction" which makes claims that sound awfully like they're near commercial viability:

Well I could just say that I was referencing what I and Kurt had been discussing, but I doubt you would listen.