Patent or not, if it worked, this would happen regardless. He's not saving himself this immense fortune by his charade. Either he puts up or he shuts up and October is approaching...parallel wrote:Without a patent (no US patents allowed for cold fusion) who would you trust to verify the device and not reverse engineer it and steal it?
10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)
Joseph Chikva,
I gather you either have problems reading or you have not been following the subject.
Even though you may write in giant letters this does not mean Rossi has any obligation to inform you about anything. What he said was no test would ever be accepted as proof, only the sale of working items. Also his plan was to produce them in quantity, cheaply enough to overcome the inevitable competition. You failed to explain the logic of providing help to said competition.
I gather you either have problems reading or you have not been following the subject.
Even though you may write in giant letters this does not mean Rossi has any obligation to inform you about anything. What he said was no test would ever be accepted as proof, only the sale of working items. Also his plan was to produce them in quantity, cheaply enough to overcome the inevitable competition. You failed to explain the logic of providing help to said competition.
Somehow I feel certain that Rossi will neither "put up" nor "shut up" after October. He'll just continue valiantly leading the charade as his dwindling cult followers (two in particular on this site come to mind) continue to hope beyond hope that he will pull something out of his........[hat|anatomical orifice].ScottL wrote:Patent or not, if it worked, this would happen regardless. He's not saving himself this immense fortune by his charade. Either he puts up or he shuts up and October is approaching...parallel wrote:Without a patent (no US patents allowed for cold fusion) who would you trust to verify the device and not reverse engineer it and steal it?
Interesting study in human behavior. I have to admit that there was a time a few years back when I thought he might be on to something.
Sad really.
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Joseph Chikva
- Posts: 2039
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am
You are contradicting yourself. "Sale of working items" means the obligation to answer to some standards: industrial safety, non-proliferation rules (according Rossi's claims this is nuclear reactor), etc. So, before sale he has obligation of certification.parallel wrote:Joseph Chikva,
I gather you either have problems reading or you have not been following the subject.
Even though you may write in giant letters this does not mean Rossi has any obligation to inform you about anything. What he said was no test would ever be accepted as proof, only the sale of working items. Also his plan was to produce them in quantity, cheaply enough to overcome the inevitable competition. You failed to explain the logic of providing help to said competition.
Recently you said that "Rossi sold one 1 MW plant to military contractor who need not certified one". Ok, when now you are talking about "Also his plan was to produce them in quantity, cheaply enough to overcome the inevitable competition" so he needs certification. Certified or not certified?
Now how he can sell in bulk quantities if nobody knows consumer properties of device? Even nobody knows does device produce radiation.
Who will buy if nobody credible measured the released heat and nobody compared with spent energy.
Also, when you complain that the patent office of the USA doesn't issue patents for cold fusion, you forget that patents as a rule issued on only useful device. And applicant has an obligation to prove usefulness of the device. Not for me but for USPO.
And who proved such usefulness?
I saw two demos:
"5 kW" device and
"1 MW plant"
And first demo was not conducted properly. And even moderately skilled people could catch his tricks with hidden heat of steam formation.
The second was even less informative.
And everywhere only bla-bla-bla: "Rossi stated that" "Rossi stated another" and often one Rossi's statement contradicts to another.
Chikva,
Where is the contradiction?
The military don't need UL certification.
Rossi says he now has certification for industrial use, required to sell 1 MW plants to other customers.
He has applied for and is waiting for UL certification for the domestic units.
Proof will only be accepted (by people like you) after verified sales of industrial or domestic items.
I rather doubt you "saw" any demo let alone two. As previously stated, the most persuasive ones were that carried out By Prof. Levi with just water and the ones with heat exchangers in Oct 2011.
If you doubt those you are stating that several independent people lied. Always possible of course, but it is normal to have some proof before making this accusation.
You still have not explained why he should help his competition.
Where is the contradiction?
The military don't need UL certification.
Rossi says he now has certification for industrial use, required to sell 1 MW plants to other customers.
He has applied for and is waiting for UL certification for the domestic units.
Proof will only be accepted (by people like you) after verified sales of industrial or domestic items.
I rather doubt you "saw" any demo let alone two. As previously stated, the most persuasive ones were that carried out By Prof. Levi with just water and the ones with heat exchangers in Oct 2011.
If you doubt those you are stating that several independent people lied. Always possible of course, but it is normal to have some proof before making this accusation.
You still have not explained why he should help his competition.
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Joseph Chikva
- Posts: 2039
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am
After properly conducted demo as well. But both demo I've seen were less informative.parallel wrote:Proof will only be accepted (by people like you) after verified sales of industrial or domestic items.
And if you mentioned "demo with heat exchangers" that was as I understand without phase transition of coolant, I have never seen that. And you? Please, give a link if that demo is available from the web.
Says you.The military don't need UL certification.
If it plugs in, it must be UL rated, by instruction.
Granted Rossikit, if it were real would be "installed" equipment, and follow further rules. Be it weapons systems, engineering, or whatever, it still must comply with industry standards such as ANSI, IEEE, etc. of which many are also codified in MILSTDs. And in fact, MILSTDs as a whole, are more restrictive than civilian counterparts due to them being intended to address a normative harsher operating environ and requirements. But they meet the baseline ANSI or whatever counter parts.
And, for the record, the Navy also complies with OHSA requirements.
You are speaking of something you do not know, and by doing so perpetuating yet another Rossimyth.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
v low deltaT - metal tubing siting issuesparallel wrote:Chikva,
Where is the contradiction?
The military don't need UL certification.
Rossi says he now has certification for industrial use, required to sell 1 MW plants to other customers.
He has applied for and is waiting for UL certification for the domestic units.
Proof will only be accepted (by people like you) after verified sales of industrial or domestic items.
I rather doubt you "saw" any demo let alone two. As previously stated, the most persuasive ones were that carried out By Prof. Levi with just water
siting issuesand the ones with heat exchangers in Oct 2011.
You'd better explain this remark. It does not work.
If you doubt those you are stating that several independent people lied. Always possible of course, but it is normal to have some proof before making this accusation.
You still have not explained why he should help his competition.
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Joseph Chikva
- Posts: 2039
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am
As I understand he sure that one of USA large military contractors bought Rossi's device for testing and not for usage.ladajo wrote:Says you.The military don't need UL certification.
If it plugs in, it must be UL rated, by instruction.
Granted Rossikit, if it were real would be "installed" equipment, and follow further rules. Be it weapons systems, engineering, or whatever, it still must comply with industry standards such as ANSI, IEEE, etc. of which many are also codified in MILSTDs. And in fact, MILSTDs as a whole, are more restrictive than civilian counterparts due to them being intended to address a normative harsher operating environ and requirements. But they meet the baseline ANSI or whatever counter parts.
And, for the record, the Navy also complies with OHSA requirements.
You are speaking of something you do not know, and by doing so perpetuating yet another Rossimyth.
We were 2 months away 12 months ago. In another 12 months we will still be 2 months away.ScottL wrote:We're about 2 months away (end of October) from settling this whole thread once and for all. If he's selling to the masses at the end October, we have an oppertunity to see if his claims are true, and if he isn't, we know he was a fraud all along. It's 2 months, I think we can make....
"Settled"? Never.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!
Exactly. It will be some new enticing development with the "hot cat". Or some exciting news about a new mystery customer. Or some brand-new-never-before thought of technological energy extension. The guy has a seemingly limitless ability to talk out his ass in Rossi-pseudo-techno-speak in a semi-convincing way. Until you learn his lingo/schtick, it's rather easy to not pay attention to the man behind the curtain.seedload wrote:We were 2 months away 12 months ago. In another 12 months we will still be 2 months away.ScottL wrote:We're about 2 months away (end of October) from settling this whole thread once and for all. If he's selling to the masses at the end October, we have an oppertunity to see if his claims are true, and if he isn't, we know he was a fraud all along. It's 2 months, I think we can make....
"Settled"? Never.
In this respect he is truly extroardinary.
If there is any validity to LENR, he has greatly damaged its credibility.
Indeed. I wonder whether we could entice for example parallel to give a limiting date, after which he would agree Rossi FOS if no working e-cat materialised. That is: none of:seedload wrote:We were 2 months away 12 months ago. In another 12 months we will still be 2 months away.ScottL wrote:We're about 2 months away (end of October) from settling this whole thread once and for all. If he's selling to the masses at the end October, we have an oppertunity to see if his claims are true, and if he isn't, we know he was a fraud all along. It's 2 months, I think we can make....
"Settled"? Never.
A) verification by independent reputable institution able to test unit (not rogue academic)
B) sales to customers (enough for them not all to be bought) who claim:
- yes, they have bought an e-cat
yes, it works and delivers substantially more heat out then electricity in.
I somehow doubt 2 months will do the trick. Six months? 12 months?
Best wishes, Tom
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Rick Meisinger
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:51 pm
On the Cobra form: http://www.cobraf.com/forum/postsbyauth ... horid=3233 Cures (who has been supposedly identified as Fulvio Fabiani now working for Leonardo Corporation and also the individual who conducted tests of the hot cat and the 1MW plant back in October of last year) made a recent post.
Their is likely low expectations for the eCat conference going on today and tomorrow, but this quote should help lower them further. The conference is supposed to be live streamed tomorrow incase anyone is interested. http://www.ecat-deutschland.org/index.php/live-streamCures wrote: "In a lot of doubts and uncertainties about the opportunity to do so I think Rossi, if not changes his mind, will unveils an internal test report, carried out for potential customers, showing preliminary data, very very conservative because it has neglected a lot of radiated power to avoid disputes. Attached there are instrumental recordings. Most with a thermal camera and some are manual recorded in front of guests who, of course, do not want to be named. Controversy are coming. As usual. With Rossi we are never bored.”
07 Settembre 2012, 21:06