Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:28 pm
Welcome.GIThruster wrote:Mystery solved. Thanks Aero!
a discussion forum for Polywell fusion
https://talk-polywell.org/bb/
Welcome.GIThruster wrote:Mystery solved. Thanks Aero!
GIThruster wrote:I think you're missing the vital issue here.
For a gas that has been ionized to suddenly expand is not great mystery. For it to contract just as quickly is a mystery.
GIThruster wrote: Now you can say that the gas is being ionized or turned to plasma by these huge currents and there's no surprise here. this is just what the device is supposed to do. You might too posit that the electrodes then conduct the pulsed power back out and tis is the electrical power out of the device that Rohner mentioned. What doesn't make sense is the gas not being hot, and contracting so quickly.
GIThruster wrote:
I'm not aware of any circumstances where a gas collapses back to an unionized state instantly with no appreciable thermal dissipation. This is why I'm saying we have an unexplored phenomenon here. Would be good if we had someone better versed in plasma physics weigh in. This is certainly nothing like a detonation engine since there's no combustion.
You must be mistaking me for someone who thinks the entire chamber becomes filled with plasma. I said nothing even resembling this. A plasma is created between the electrodes and in that small volume of gas near them. I do not believe a plasma is created throughout the entire cylinder, I believe the bulk of the gases remain in gaseous form.Aero wrote:Seems to me that there is still some confusion as to the difference between a gas and a plasma. They are different states of matter. Gas laws do not hold for plasmas nor do the rules governing plasma physics apply to gasses. The rules characterizing plasma behavior within magnetic fields are not generally well understood but a few companies should have expertise far in advance of Rohner Machine.
Aero wrote: Look carefully at the construction of the machine. It includes a cylinder wrapped in a coil, and on the PAPP engine (but not the demo), the cylinder head is also magneticly shielded (published photo cira 1980). This structure starts to resemble a Polywell device physically but with variable chamber volume.
Aero wrote: I suspect there are people at EMC2 who could quickly assess the functionality of this machine.
Aero wrote: I also expect that the required knowledge of plasma physics is widespread in Ad Astra, the company developing the VASIMR engine. In fact, Ad Astra would be highly motivated to develop a light weight, high power, long lived electrical generator to power the VASIMR engine if they thought it worked.
Over unity power is the holy grail. I hope it is discovered somewhere, and the sooner the better.
sometimes I wish we had a "LIKE" buttonDiogenes wrote:I cannot emphasize this enough. The man in the video is not doing science, he is tinkering.
The Absence of data logging instrumentation demonstrates that the man has no clue how much energy he is putting into the gas, nor how much energy he is getting out of it.
Output energy can be calculated by the movements and displacements of the piston and the weight. (Except for any supposed electrical energy produced elsewhere in the device. That has to be measured.)
There needs to be data logged current and voltage measurements for his electrical input power, and without these measurements it will not be possible to determine if the output energy is exceeding the input power.
One or both of those physics guys sitting at the table ought to have insisted on this. It makes me wonder about their credibility. Measuring input energy is not hard to do. You don't have to buyLab View, you can cobble together plenty of low cost alternatives to accomplish this.
If you are serious, that is.
sometimes I wish we had a "LIKE" buttonGIThruster wrote:Well, except that we have no idea what sorts of measurements Rohner have taken. They said they have 150% OU. One supposes if they're going to say that, then they must have used some sort of technique to measure. Assuming they don't based upon a presentation demo seems to me a pretty uncharitable assumption. Bob did say they ran up the demonstrator he had there just for that presentation. It's not research kit. It was designed so it could be disassembled and reassembled quickly. If you have to presume anything, I'd presume their measurement methods are flawed until they explain them, just as Tom has.
The key to Stirling engine performance is the efficiency of the regenerator.Tom Ligon wrote:Sterling engines are kinda like that.
And we are sure that it is not hydrogen reacting with some residual air/oxygen with the spark igniting it?Russ has gotten the popper to work using hydrogen in a proof of principle exercise.
I stated and also saw in the video as follows:Skipjack wrote:And we are sure that it is not hydrogen reacting with some residual air/oxygen with the spark igniting it?Russ has gotten the popper to work using hydrogen in a proof of principle exercise.
A chemical combustion process would not be senitive to the type of spark used.Video #11 shows that a continuous high voltage spark does not cause gas expansion, but a short and powerful spark with a very short duration does.