Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:32 am
Actually, you could just explode it then pour water in and use the steam until you need another explosion. Something like home made geothermal.
a discussion forum for Polywell fusion
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I'd really like to see the primary vs secondary loop isolation on that one.Aero wrote:Actually, you could just explode it then pour water in and use the steam until you need another explosion. Something like home made geothermal.
Don't worry about radiation, just drop your turbo generator most of the way down the hole and run it there. If it breaks, drop it the rest of the way and drop in a new one.MSimon wrote:I'd really like to see the primary vs secondary loop isolation on that one.Aero wrote:Actually, you could just explode it then pour water in and use the steam until you need another explosion. Something like home made geothermal.
I heard that an M80 a little tough on the plumbing....MSimon wrote:I'd really like to see the primary vs secondary loop isolation on that one.Aero wrote:Actually, you could just explode it then pour water in and use the steam until you need another explosion. Something like home made geothermal.
For me it isn't that an NIF like facility will ever become a viable power station, it is that it is a rapid development environment for inertial confinement (among other things). It *will* increase understanding rapidly.MSimon wrote:Fusion bombs get pretty high Q. It does not make them a viable source of civilizational energy.NIF is going to surprise many folks as well: from what I gather, it is very likely get a pretty good Q sometime this year, and that may change a lot of perception about it.
Where's the low temperature side of the loop?Aero wrote:Don't worry about radiation, just drop your turbo generator most of the way down the hole and run it there. If it breaks, drop it the rest of the way and drop in a new one.MSimon wrote:I'd really like to see the primary vs secondary loop isolation on that one.Aero wrote:Actually, you could just explode it then pour water in and use the steam until you need another explosion. Something like home made geothermal.
Are you guys taking this idea seriously? Well, I guess it is a slow news era. I was more worried about ground water contamination myself. Heat sink? I guess you'd need to use conductive heating into the cooler rock at the elevation of the generator. That would make it more complicated though, especially when you had to replace the turbo generator.Art Carlson wrote:Where's the low temperature side of the loop?Aero wrote:Don't worry about radiation, just drop your turbo generator most of the way down the hole and run it there. If it breaks, drop it the rest of the way and drop in a new one.MSimon wrote:I'd really like to see the primary vs secondary loop isolation on that one.
I take the blame. I posed to myself a gedanken experiment, "how could I use an h-bomb to generate usable energy?" It's a lot more interesting than nuking a path across Nicaragua to create a sea-level (no locks) canal. I must have read too many "atoms for peace" articles when I was a kid.Aero wrote:Are you guys taking this idea seriously? Well, I guess it is a slow news era. I was more worried about ground water contamination myself. Heat sink? I guess you'd need to use conductive heating into the cooler rock at the elevation of the generator. That would make it more complicated though, especially when you had to replace the turbo generator.Art Carlson wrote:Where's the low temperature side of the loop?Aero wrote:Don't worry about radiation, just drop your turbo generator most of the way down the hole and run it there. If it breaks, drop it the rest of the way and drop in a new one.
That was my take. Giorgio seems to think I'm missing the point. What I'm wondering is how the paper got past peer review. Not on the actual science but the projections that in the future such a mechanism can beat Carnot.Aero wrote:It should be possible to develop a thought experiment that shows a perpetual motion machine if such devices exceed Carnot efficiency. Given a 100% efficient Carnot machine and a 100% efficient thermoelectric device, then the Carnot machine generates electricity to drive the thermoelectric device which heats the hot side of the Carnot machine. If the thermoelectric device creates more heat than the Carnot machine uses you have perpetual motion. I have the feeling that is unlikely.
Of course maybe I'm missing the point.
Aero wrote:I don't know. Devices that operate using the Seebeck effect, the Peltier effect, and the Thomson effect are very interesting to study but so far the efficiencies are too low. The theoretical basis seems to be in place so it wouldn't be surprising if usefully efficient generating devices are developed near term.
It should be possible to develop a thought experiment that shows a perpetual motion machine if such devices exceed Carnot efficiency. Given a 100% efficient Carnot machine and a 100% efficient thermoelectric device, then the Carnot machine generates electricity to drive the thermoelectric device which heats the hot side of the Carnot machine. If the thermoelectric device creates more heat than the Carnot machine uses you have perpetual motion. I have the feeling that is unlikely.
Of course maybe I'm missing the point.