You do NOT have to assume the pump makes ALL the heating. It can do for a part of it.
I didn't. I gave you both cases and my reasoning for each.
1) Assume this is correct and the water is heated by the pump (hidden element) to 100C.
The energy contribution from this would be 598W.
2) Assume partial phase change with over 600W.
If you look at the water feed directly on the ecat, the hose is just pushed onto a barb. Plastic hose softens at 100C and there is a good chance of it coming off, so a restraint of some sort would be required.
Also if the water from the pump was heated, I am sure that would have been discovered very quickly.
None the less, if the input water were pre-heated by the pump, that would be rather obvious.
Obvious? This is a pretty subjective concept. To me the mere fact of the scam IS obvious from the very beginning. I might be wrong, though.
When Rossi says there is one measured input, but there are obviously two (at least ), what do you make of it? Malice or Stupidity? What do you make of Levi's glorious appearance in this video? The guy is obviously stoned.
What do you make of Focardi's less than stellar appearance? Are you familiar with the term "figurehead" ? "rent-a-celebrity"?
Yes, Rossi is not a slick presenter; an obvious and conclusive indication that RossiFusion is a total scam. Right. Got it.
"As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden." Chauncey Gardiner
Rossi talks about 26C to 100C (dT=100C-26C=74C) - 74C with 7kg/h with 3.4A@220V input power, right? That is X output power.
Now suppose the pump heats the water to 63C using the second outlet (unaccounted power in). That would give you dT=100C-63C=37C Would that make the Rossi device power output X/2 ?
Are you suggesting ANY plastic hose softens at 100C? That is a bit of a claim, ain't it?
[Edit] @sparkyy0007
If you look at the water feed directly on the ecat, the hose is just pushed onto a barb.
Watched the water inlet in the video again. I perceive this setup :
Last edited by polyill on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is the highest temperature that could be attained at 1 atm pressure and the temp that the water from the pump would end up at with a pump heater energy of 600W given the flow rate and dt of 74 k without some degree of vaporization. It is significant but hardly 4kw.
Now suppose the pump heats the water to 63C using the second outlet (unaccounted power in).
This would account for only 297W, again only a fraction of the reported heat.
Are you suggesting ANY plastic hose softens at 100C? That is a bit of a claim, ain't it?
I have yet to see a thermoplastic hose that doesn't stiffen with cold and soften with heat to some degree. I don't think the hose was Teflon or polyimide but I could be wrong. In either case if hot water was coming from the pump, would you risk not clamping it?
If you look at the water feed directly on the ecat, the hose is just pushed onto a barb.
Watched the water inlet in the video again. I perceive this setup :
You are right, the connection on the ecat does look restrained however, follow the water line from the ecat to the pump and there appear to be 2 unrestrained hose splices.
I do this often in my work that's why I commented on their reliability, especially with hot water.
Power consumption of peristaltic pump http://www.verderflex.com/Product_Range ... ra/Dura_10
I think that pumps made by another supplier would have the similar consumption.
Rossi claims 7 l/h water flow. I think much less. But let it be - 7l/h.
Power consumption of peristaltic pump at that flow - not more 10W.
For what remaining 740W?
Why Rossi does not use flow-meter?
Here How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Realhttp://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_proof_frames_v401.php
are mentioned "resistors" inside reactor.
I think that those resistors are electric heaters.
And nobody can say only that 740W dissipated on those "resistors" or much more from another electric power source bypassing ampere-meter.
Also he claims: "Hydrogen 1 g". Measuring?
I am sure that much more and hydrogen+nickel formulation in nickel hydride occurs which is exothermic reaction.
Here is information on the pump. Its a diaphram pump driven by a pulsed electromagnet from a timing circuit. It is not a peristaltic pump.
The diaphragm is housed in a specilly molded plastic block on the rear.
The pump valves are integral to the inlet and outlet fittings attached to the block. It would not be a simple task to install any kind of heater in a diverted fluid path with this pump design and maintain functionality.
I noticed the fluid lines on the video were pulsing, so I think I can safely assume the original mechanism is functioning normally.
Here is a pdf with a pictorial breakdown of the pump.
sparkyy0007 wrote:Here is information on the pump. Its a diaphram pump driven by a pulsed electromagnet from a timing circuit. It is not a peristaltic pump.
The diaphragm is housed in a specilly molded plastic block on the rear.
The pump valves are integral to the inlet and outlet fittings attached to the block. It would not be a simple task to install any kind of heater in a diverted fluid path with this pump design and maintain functionality.
I noticed the fluid lines on the video were pulsing, so I think I can safely assume the original mechanism is functioning normally.
Here is a pdf with a pictorial breakdown of the pump.
I remember that in that youtube presentation Rossi mentioned "peristaltic".
Ok, not peristaltic. What do you think what power consumption will have a motor-pump on another running principle at flow rate 3-7 l/h?
polyill wrote:Let me clarify what am I speaking of :
Please, prove me wrong. Can it be that simple?
I wrote to Steven yesterday night asking if the pump was connected to the control box or had an independent power supply. He replied that the pump has its own power plug.
This should add between 30 to 50 W of extra power consumption, thu reducing even more the claimed COP.
I doubt he is using it to warm the water as you mentioned, but it is a possibility.
Ok. Thank you for the info.I guess we are back to where we stated.
1. Why is the thermocouple in the canister and not close to the inlet?
2. Why the double insulation between the pump and the inlet?
1. At this point is probably just an "engineering simplification", i.e. more easy to measure it in the canister than having to place an in-line sensor.
As you have noticed the equipment they are using is very basic one.
2. I still think that it is to avoid heat exchange between the water and the external ambient but, as I said before, I doubt that they are using the pump as a mean to preheat the water.
What leaves me once more puzzled of this issue is the total lack of logical reasoning they are using in setting up the experiment.
I remember that in that youtube presentation Rossi mentioned "peristaltic".
Ok, not peristaltic. What do you think what power consumption will have a motor-pump on another running principle at flow rate 3-7 l/h?
Yes, I remeber he said that.
I have one torn down in my lab, here is a pix of the name-plate rating. [/img]
It indicates 1.4 A @ 120 vac.
That must be peak as the operation of the electromagnet is pulsed.
I doubt the RMS power would be more than 10-20 W. The electromagnet is on the lower right of the pix, and is operated very briefly.
sparkyy0007 wrote:I doubt the RMS power would be more than 10-20 W.
So, again the question: For what remaining 730-740W?
As I remember there in device are resistors that as I understand dissipate energy inside reactor.
Additional heat via chemical reactor H+Ni=>NiH.
Plus incorrect measure of output heat.
That's all Rossi's miracle.
), what do you make of it? Malice or Stupidity? What do you make of Levi's glorious appearance in this video? The guy is obviously stoned.
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