10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[TallDave]

Nearly all the focus has been on whether the tests were flawed/faked, but I wonder if that's the wrong question. It's possible the tests were all exactly as they seemed, but the reaction is chemical and that's what Rossi is either hiding or ignorant of.

Should run some numbers and see how long a chemical reaction might power an e-cat.

[sparkyy0007]

4) during the process, the system emits gamma rays (shieldable with small thicknesses of lead) that are the signature of a nuclear process

Even 100 mw of gammas is a LOT. If it is a significant factor in heat production a small thickness of lead will not help. If we are dealing with nuclear. If it is chemical the lead is just smoke.

I am no expert with radiation but that's what I thought, if Focardi was seeing gamma on the tiny units, wouldn't the gamma production be a function of the reaction power?
If any gamma at all is produced by the process at all, would not the attenuated gamma have been detected in previous tests?

If Focardi is telling the truth, and I see no reason for him to lie, maybe Rossi does have a working unit, but has never actually demonstrated it publicly due to radiation issues, which he hopes to solve in future with enough money.

If this does produce gamma, I can see a very restrictive marketing and certification problem for him.

[Ivy Matt]

I think the "N" clue just came from PESN (Sterling Alan) and has little credibility behind it IMO.

I thought the "N" clue was about an entity that had examined the E-Cat, but not obtained a conclusive result, or something like that. And it turned out to be NASA. It was just confused with the mysterious customer in the same way that National Instruments was.

[Ivy Matt]

Nearly all the focus has been on whether the tests were flawed/faked, but I wonder if that's the wrong question. It's possible the tests were all exactly as they seemed, but the reaction is chemical and that's what Rossi is either hiding or ignorant of.

Should run some numbers and see how long a chemical reaction might power an e-cat.

If Rossi is hiding the fact that his device is powered by a chemical reaction, then his demonstrations are faked. If he's ignorant of the fact that his device is powered by a chemical reaction, then he is deluded. Both possibilities have been mentioned frequently. And he has been criticized for not running his demonstrations long enough to rule out a chemical reaction or other non-nuclear sources of power.

I'm somewhat partial to the delusion explanation, but when Focardi mentions both transmutations to copper and gamma rays, I have to accept that he is either lying, or there is probably some sort of nuclear reaction taking place. Or maybe Rossi somehow introduced the copper and gamma ray source without Focardi knowing...or tampered with Focardi's instruments....

[Ivy Matt]

If Focardi is telling the truth, and I see no reason for him to lie, maybe Rossi does have a working unit, but has never actually demonstrated it publicly due to radiation issues, which he hopes to solve in future with enough money.

I don't know, Focardi says the gamma rays can be absorbed by a small thickness of lead. If that's true, why wouldn't Rossi use the real units in his public demonstrations?

[sparkyy0007]

If Focardi is telling the truth, and I see no reason for him to lie, maybe Rossi does have a working unit, but has never actually demonstrated it publicly due to radiation issues, which he hopes to solve in future with enough money.

I don't know, Focardi says the gamma rays can be absorbed by a small thickness of lead. If that's true, why wouldn't Rossi use the real units in his public demonstrations?

I don't think continuous significant gamma production can be reduced all the way to background, which is apparently what was measured in all public tests (other than that one spike which I am too lazy to reference). But I am no expert on this, just found it strange.

[stefanbanev]

Apparently we will get some updated info from Brain Ahern in a couple weeks.

http://citi5.org/launch/?p=1826

Some statements will likely raise some dander here......

Rossi is not the only show in town. There is good promise that there will be a hand full of other LENR events that will hold our interest over the winter. Rossi is just one of many interesting LENR players that are in the offing.

First off, I am interested in what Brian Ahern of Ames National Laboratory has to say in early December. This will hold interest for quite a while.

Ahern has also been guiding George Miley’s group at UIUC on this nanotechnology, and the group seems to be enjoying a great deal of success in the month of October.

Interesting…

Miley has been the patron saint of my LENR opinions for sometime now. Miley has researched Rydberg hydrogen species and I have not seen any deviation to reduce his interest in this possible causation.

What is missing in Miley's theories includes exact details on how Rydberg species produces LENR power. Bose Einstein condensates were often mentioned as involved. But maybe this has been recently replaced with a new powder causation mechanism. It seems to me that the long term survival of the transiton metal lattice excludes nuclear reactions as we commonly understand them.

IT PROVIDES A CONCISE EXPLANATION FOR THE BIOENERGETICS OBSERVED IN ALL ASPECTS OF NATURE.”

LENR in living systems also exclude traditional nuclear reactions.


If you bother to read Mileys October results, he produced 39 new elements with diverging isotopic concentrations.

One of the most interesting parts of Miley’s work (presented in the slides) is that he has created a unique analysis tool to do precise but broad based analysis of content of elements within the nickel powder. He checks the powder, sets up the machine, heats up the device, then lets it run wherein it generates more energy than is put into it. Then he takes the powder and analyzes its content again. He finds that 39 different elements have statistically significant shifts of isotope abundance. That’s interesting to say the least. The results really haven’t been processed by anyone yet in terms of what it means for a theory describing how these things work. But Miley wants the test run on Rossi’s device and I sure would like to see that also.

Well, it's clear that LENR may offer a broad spectrum of possibilities however, the delivery of something simple and practical like e-cat will make a dramatic impact on perception of LENR before that, such musings look as a total BS therefore it's damaging... LENR should be bucked by some practically tangible result in the same way as atomic bomb did for physics of elementary particles. The isotopic abnormalities in bacteria is definitely a VERY interesting finding but such research is doomed to be poorly founded without practically relevant breakthrough in this area...

[MSimon]

If Focardi is telling the truth, and I see no reason for him to lie, maybe Rossi does have a working unit, but has never actually demonstrated it publicly due to radiation issues, which he hopes to solve in future with enough money.

I don't know, Focardi says the gamma rays can be absorbed by a small thickness of lead. If that's true, why wouldn't Rossi use the real units in his public demonstrations?

Magnitudes matter. At a few mW 1 cm of lead may be adequate. Up that 4 or 7 orders of magnitude) and you are talking serious mass.

You can't do engineering without running the numbers.

[MSimon]

If Focardi is telling the truth, and I see no reason for him to lie, maybe Rossi does have a working unit, but has never actually demonstrated it publicly due to radiation issues, which he hopes to solve in future with enough money.

I don't know, Focardi says the gamma rays can be absorbed by a small thickness of lead. If that's true, why wouldn't Rossi use the real units in his public demonstrations?

I don't think continuous significant gamma production can be reduced all the way to background, which is apparently what was measured in all public tests (other than that one spike which I am too lazy to reference). But I am no expert on this, just found it strange.

Theoretically you are correct. But a value even 10% above background is impossible to distinguish from background except at long time scales. At short scales (seconds minutes) even a 2 to 1 change is not easy to detect.

If a flimsy shield can reduce the gammas at high power (10 KW in a 30 by 40 by 50 cm (estimated) box then the process is unlikely to be significantly nuclear. I'm looking forward to a dissertation from Mr. K on how to do that by a simple manipulation of nuclear forces mediated by the TBD particle(s). which is/are always present in the quantities needed and at the exact time and place required.

I went to the unobtanium store to get a few truck loads but they were out of stock. Future deliveries TBD. Real soon now. To be sure.

[seedload]

The goodly majority of the gammas are supposed to be coming from short half lived transmuted isotopes of copper and nickel rapidly decaying back to stable nickel.

Rossi says that he blew up a bunch of ecats early on, presumably breaching the tin foil containment (sorry, I mean lead) and shooting radioactive copper and nickel all over the place.

Glad they made it!

[seedload]

From what I can tell, the water is in the presumed gamma ray flux. I wonder how they deal with the problem of dissociated hydrogen? Do they vent it? Or, does it just build up in the top of the shipping container until they create a little mini-Fukashima?

[seedload]

by a simple manipulation of nuclear forces mediated by the TBD particle(s). which is/are always present in the quantities needed and at the exact time and place required.

Their oscillating!

[cg66]

From what I can tell, the water is in the presumed gamma ray flux. I wonder how they deal with the problem of dissociated hydrogen? Do they vent it? Or, does it just build up in the top of the shipping container until they create a little mini-Fukashima?

Its what the leaky gaskets are for! Its not a flaw its a feature!

[parallel]

Swedish physicists run the site Ecat.com
see http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_m ... 347150.ece

NyT: There is great skepticism about Rossi’s technology. How do comment on that?

Holm: “Until he makes an independent test, there is obviously a small chance that it does not work. We are willing to take that risk because it’s such an amazing technology if it works. Further support that it’s real comes from the fact that all independent physicists who have observed the tests are positive, and have expressed belief in the mechanism. I do not have much sympathy for the crowd of skeptics who insist in spending substantial time and energy, just to be able to boast a ‘what did I say’ if it should turn out to be wrong.”

[Giorgio]

Nearly all the focus has been on whether the tests were flawed/faked, but I wonder if that's the wrong question. It's possible the tests were all exactly as they seemed, but the reaction is chemical and that's what Rossi is either hiding or ignorant of.

Should run some numbers and see how long a chemical reaction might power an e-cat.

Done that in the previous thread, around page 100 or so if I remember well.
No chemical reaction with Ni or Ni compounds can power it for the times reported in the tests.