10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote: I'll try to be more clear.
REPLIES INTERSPERSED

[SNIP]

the question therefore is, are the propositions true? I don't know.
Awh... we just do not use the same definitions and methods for logic.
The only point we agree is the last one thought.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

Kahuna wrote:Something is fishy here. Perhaps Rossi does not have the money after all.
That might be a good interpretation for it.
UoB might not be anymore necessary to Rossi. Should he quit the UoB contract (for whatever reason) I think only the fools will still believe him.
Luckly for him fools abound.
Kahuna wrote:Actually I prefer your paraphrase to a word-for-word translation. Thanks again.
Will try to do it tonight when I come back, that is if they do not bring me to another karaoke :D

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

icarus wrote:New physics!

Order from Chaos on the nano scale ... bye, bye second law.

Now that should give something for sceptics to get frothy-mouthed about.

This party is just warming up.
I wonder if he will bring some REAL experimental data to warm up the party or if he will just warm the crowd by making big proclaims as Rossi does.

I mean, after 10 years of work he should have been able to collect at least a small experimental evidence to support his claims.
Do you feel we will have the opportunity to see these evidences or we are not pure enough to receive this honor because we are "frothy-mouthed sceptics"?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

icarus wrote:Brian Ahern received his PhD in material science from MIT, holds 26 patents and was a senior scientist for 17 years in research and development at USAF Rome Lab at Hanscom Air Force Base. Ahern was the U.S. Air Force’s expert on nano-materials. Ahern has discovered the LENR phenomenon is occurring on the nanoscale and involves a formerly misunderstood and rarely explored attribute of nano-magnetism.

Apparently, energy localization at the nano-scale circumvents the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Nature evolved to take advantage of these energy exchange mechanisms available only at this size scale (which is why ordered structures can be created from chaos, such as after the big bang.) This phenomenon was identified in 1996 as Oscillons in relation to Chaos Theory, but has never been clearly understood until now.

Source: Citi5 (http://s.tt/13NK0)

http://citi5.org/launch/?p=1826

New physics!

Order from Chaos on the nano scale ... bye, bye second law.

Now that should give something for sceptics to get frothy-mouthed about.

This party is just warming up.

Angular momentum is the key. The spin of the nucleus and the rotation of the galaxies are inextricably linked.
Or he could be another Tesla. A genius when it came to motors and power transmission. A genius when it came to devising radio controlled devices.

Then he combined those fields without a technical understanding of "Q" multiplication and he was off the deep end. Power through the air? Sure. For short distances. Whole cities? Not in the cards. Besides spectrum has become way to valuable for comms to waste a lot of it for power transmission. Unless you are up in the microwaves. Which he was not.

Genius is no sign Ahern is correct.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Ivy Matt
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Post by Ivy Matt »

Giorgio wrote:He is practically complaining that UoB should start experimental tests even if the contract has not yet been finalized by Rossi side, stating that few funds can be found to start this research if there is the willingness of the scientific establishment.
He than bashes UoB and general science for being not open to Cold Fusion research and for not reacting to the external pressure to drop the contract with Rossi.

Is a weird post, he seems to open the road to a possible break between Rossi and UoB by trying to put from now the blame on UoB for not having found the money more than on Rossi for not having paid them.
Crazy. A good part of Rossi's legitimacy rests on the claim that he already has customers. I never seriously doubted he had a customer because it just doesn't seem unlikely to me that someone would be willing to step up and take the risk of being the first one. Now it appears to me that either Rossi doesn't have a customer, the customer has refused to let its money be taken out of escrow for some reason (the results of customer-controlled testing? ;-)), or Rossi doesn't want to have the UoB examine his E-Cat for some reason, even though he has already said the results of the examination won't be made public.
icarus wrote:New physics!

Order from Chaos on the nano scale ... bye, bye second law.

Now that should give something for sceptics to get frothy-mouthed about.

This party is just warming up.

Angular momentum is the key. The spin of the nucleus and the rotation of the galaxies are inextricably linked.
I look forward to the results of the experiments that will be run (and replicated) to test Ahern's hypothesis.

Oh, and if read correctly, according to Ahern's hypothesis the 2nd law still holds at greater than nanometer scales.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

cg66 wrote:Apparently we will get some updated info from Brain Ahern in a couple weeks.

http://citi5.org/launch/?p=1826

Some statements will likely raise some dander here......
Rossi is not the only show in town. There is good promise that there will be a hand full of other LENR events that will hold our interest over the winter. Rossi is just one of many interesting LENR players that are in the offing.

First off, I am interested in what Brian Ahern of Ames National Laboratory has to say in early December. This will hold interest for quite a while.
Ahern has also been guiding George Miley’s group at UIUC on this nanotechnology, and the group seems to be enjoying a great deal of success in the month of October.
Interesting…

Miley has been the patron saint of my LENR opinions for sometime now. Miley has researched Rydberg hydrogen species and I have not seen any deviation to reduce his interest in this possible causation.

What is missing in Miley's theories includes exact details on how Rydberg species produces LENR power. Bose Einstein condensates were often mentioned as involved. But maybe this has been recently replaced with a new powder causation mechanism. It seems to me that the long term survival of the transiton metal lattice excludes nuclear reactions as we commonly understand them.
IT PROVIDES A CONCISE EXPLANATION FOR THE BIOENERGETICS OBSERVED IN ALL ASPECTS OF NATURE.”
LENR in living systems also exclude traditional nuclear reactions.


If you bother to read Mileys October results, he produced 39 new elements with diverging isotopic concentrations.

One of the most interesting parts of Miley’s work (presented in the slides) is that he has created a unique analysis tool to do precise but broad based analysis of content of elements within the nickel powder. He checks the powder, sets up the machine, heats up the device, then lets it run wherein it generates more energy than is put into it. Then he takes the powder and analyzes its content again. He finds that 39 different elements have statistically significant shifts of isotope abundance. That’s interesting to say the least. The results really haven’t been processed by anyone yet in terms of what it means for a theory describing how these things work. But Miley wants the test run on Rossi’s device and I sure would like to see that also.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

ladajo wrote:
seedload wrote:
TallDave wrote:Yes, very flimsy, but still interesting, thanks for sharing.
Flimsy in both the second hand nature of the "all agreement thing" claim, in the idea that the Navy would buy a first unit commercial device when all they would need to do is wait to find out if it works, and in the idea that the Navy would accept a two page hand written questionaire filled out by an foreign hired gun as proof of concept to authorize the purchase
This is the point I raised previously. There is in fact no chance given the way aquisistions works.
Espescially with budgetary issues these days, NOBODY is going to go out on a limb for an unknown.
That's just the documentation we've seen. Who knows what else was done.

Obviously I wouldn't be surprised if that anon commenter is wrong/fake, but unless Rossi has faked the customer and the million-dollar payment, the Navy or a contractor of theirs seems to make sense. Rossi said it was for heating of remote sites, which is the most sensible application if the tech is real -- places like McMurdo and Amundsen–Scott which can't be resupplied for months at a time are sort of a natural fit, and the naval logistics chain would obviously see huge benefits from this kind of fuel density.

And Polywell is after all funded by the Navy to eight figures despite 99% of the mainstream fusion community saying it's impossible, and neither notion is as crazy as some of the stuff DARPA has funded.

I'm still not entirely closing the door on the possibility Rossi's N stands for "no one" but if we assume the customer is real USN would seem to be one of the strongest possibilities.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

We would see the Single Source contract in the system. There is none.
It is not the navy. I suspect it is "N"o one, this is more probable than not.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

ladajo wrote:We would see the Single Source contract in the system. There is none.
It is not the navy. I suspect it is "N"o one, this is more probable than not.
I think the "N" clue just came from PESN (Sterling Alan) and has little credibility behind it IMO.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

ladajo wrote:We would see the Single Source contract in the system. There is none.
It is not the navy. I suspect it is "N"o one, this is more probable than not.
Sorry, you would see it where, exactly? Does that hold for anything funded by the Navy or their contractors?

Rossi is telling people Paul Swanson can vouch for the test, that seems to indicate they are at least interested.

I guess we'll see how the next year goes, Rossi claims to be booked through 2012 now. E-cats will either start demonstrating their abilities commercially very soon, or fail to materialize as usually happens for this sort of device.
Last edited by TallDave on Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

sparkyy0007
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Post by sparkyy0007 »

Google translate:
fyi
Sergio Focardi interview where they wrote:Cold fusion: the E-cat is the future of energy. Exclusive Interview with prof. Sergio Focardi

Thursday, 17 November 2011 11:38 Written by Roberta De Carolis


sergio_focardi

Too many are still doubts that run of the E-Cat, the famous catalyst tested in recent months and built by engineer Andrew Smith and Professor Emeritus at the University of Bologna, Sergio Focardi. And it is to him, we wanted to ask our questions, trying to figure out and steal some more news on the machine that could revolutionize the fortunes of energy, pointing especially to a new form of clean energy, that fact made by fusing cold water.

And our choice fell on Professor Focardi because, in our opinion, thanks to its experience in the field and his authority, is the person who can help us understand what really lurks the E-Cat. Here's what he said in the exclusive interview in collaboration with NextMe.it.

GM: You and the Engineer. Rossi could get hold of the salvation for the world's energy problems, but still the mechanism of what really lead to the production of energy, at a cost much lower than the classical nuclear reactions, is not made known. While I understand the obvious issues regarding patent, what real evidence that the invention functions might bring? Or rather, as evidence that there is a real nuclear reaction, it is impossible to reveal the details in his reaction? It 'a real nuclear fusion? And if so, what nuclei?

SF: The mechanism that gives rise to the process is a nuclear fusion reaction (among a core of nickel and a hydrogen nucleus). We reach this conclusion for the following reasons:

1) the components that give rise to the process are nickel and hydrogen;

2) reaction produces copper in the heart of which is obtained by adding a proton (hydrogen nucleus) the nucleus of nickel;

3) the amount of energy released in the process is much higher than the energy of chemical reactions that have occurred and requires a nuclear process;

4) during the process, the system emits gamma rays (shieldable with small thicknesses of lead) that are the signature of a nuclear process

When and what did the collaboration with Andrea Rossi? What are the roles within your relationship? The birthright of the project?:

SF: I had already worked in this field of research in the past, in a collaboration between my research group at the University of Bologna and University of Siena research group headed by Prof. Francis Piantelli. Eng. Rossi, who was interested in finding a partner to operate in this field, was made on my behalf.

We often talk of the E-Cat as a unique idea by Andrea Rossi. It was really the case? How does each of you has contributed to what appears to be the car that could give rise to the "miracle power"?

SF: We have worked closely together, each one of us has put their skills into play. If we wanted to find at any price differentiation between our surgery we could conclude that Smith has designed the E-cat, I have given the interpretation of the phenomenon of nuclear fusion, together we have designed and built the first experiments have confirmed the our ideas. All experimental prototypes have been made by Ing. Rossi, who also had the technical implementation of projects and areas for testing of equipment.

You are able to quantify, at least tentatively, the energy savings that this technology would provide, in terms of average fuel economy? What kind of reality is able to feed efficiently the current machine? Updates are provided, where appropriate?

SF: How to answer the first question, the system requires to run nickel and hydrogen, both of which can be produced or obtained in unlimited quantities. In fact, the core of the Earth 'consisting of nickel and iron, hydrogen can be obtained by electrolysis of water which exists on the planet Earth in unlimited quantities.

The invention would not only produce energy at low cost, but also so clean compared to the current resources: can you explain, as far as she can, the real environmental impact and therefore the net benefit to the ecological level? Really solve the problem of emissions?

SF: Of course! There is no production of pollutants of any kind. The gamma rays that are emitted during the process are absorbed by small thicknesses of lead, in addition to functioning as a protective shield, also capture the energy of gamma rays, transforming it into heat.

Currently the E-cat is channeled primarily to produce heat. It derives from the needs of the customer? How long before they move to the production of electricity?

SF: I need to add a converter that transforms the heat energy into electrical energy. This can be used for any application.

What will it cost to businesses and families to adopt an Energy catalyzer? It will be really safe to keep it at home?

SF: There are no risks as long as you solve the problem of supplying hydrogen to avoid the presence in the home of a tank of hydrogen. I do not know the possible costs give an opinion, it will depend, in addition to the cost of materials and the construction of the single E-cat on the number of manufacturers who have acquired the right to commercial exploitation.

The E-cat really could free ourselves from the logic of the oil lobby? And 'for this reason that you are addressing mainly to private customers? The engineer. Smith spoke of a war, people who somehow do not like, hence the explanation of hiding behind the silence. In your opinion why?

SF: I do not think there are major problems of conflict with companies providing other types of fuels. Do not forget that according to reliable estimates, the world's reserves of oil, gas and coal will be exhausted within 150 years. We will become a fourth form whose existence also lengthen the duration of the other. Moreover, this form of energy will be of unlimited duration

If you find a defect or a negative side to your invention, what would it be? And what is his strong point?

SF: I can not find flaws or negative aspects of our invention

Cold fusion has been said so much. How would you define the invention made by you and by his colleague Rossi? And think that might actually solve the long term, the energy problem on the planet?

SF: You have said so much but so far has been confined to consume what is available. As I wrote in response to one of the last questions, we solved the energy problem for the inhabitants of the Earth!

In the near future, what are the steps towards a real field testing? After the experiment of October 28 potential buyers have come forward?

SF: I am not aware of what

In your opinion, in addition to the E-Cat, what are the alternatives in the future of energy production from fossil fuels?

SF: I do not I see, but are not particularly competent in this area

How do you imagine the future of E-Cat? What will be the future step for the diffusion of E-cat? When will we see in our homes?

SF: According to many questions of this type that have been asked by friends and acquaintances, I can imagine a future full of success!

And we can only hope so auguraglielo and because, if indeed everything worked as claimed Rossi and Focardi, a big problem for the Environment would be close to resolution.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

4) during the process, the system emits gamma rays (shieldable with small thicknesses of lead) that are the signature of a nuclear process
Even 100 mw of gammas is a LOT. If it is a significant factor in heat production a small thickness of lead will not help. If we are dealing with nuclear. If it is chemical the lead is just smoke.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

I guess if the rest of Rossi's hair falls out, that improves the odds he's onto something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray# ... nteraction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alfa_ ... ration.svg

Hmmm. Not sure how much where e-cat radiation falls within the gamma spectrum matters here. Presumably Rossi thinks it is toward the lower end, but we could do some rough calculations to figure minimum thicknesses based on claimed power...
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

You know, I've always suspected thet what happened to BLP was that their reactors required refuelling far more often than they claimed, because the process was chemical rather than nuclear.

Rossi is at least not talking about fractional electron states, but I wonder if he was fooled by the same reaction...

I've also heard refineries have run into a similar issue re nickel catalysts.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

seedload
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Post by seedload »

TallDave wrote:You know, I've always suspected thet what happened to BLP was that their reactors required refuelling far more often than they claimed, because the process was chemical rather than nuclear.

Rossi is at least not talking about fractional electron states, but I wonder if he was fooled by the same reaction...

I've also heard refineries have run into a similar issue re nickel catalysts.
That would explain the multiple ginormous hydrogen tanks.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

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