10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[KitemanSA]

After you did that, I suggest, you check the istope spectrum from before and after the powder was in the reactor (you find it somewhere on krivits site). While you are at it, explain why there is more copper in the "after" spectrum than there was nickel in the original powder, and why the spectrum is mainly iron and almost no nickel at all.

You know, I've seen claims of isotope evaluations. I've never seen one on the Rossi output. I've seen traces from Piantelli's work that has been attributed to Rossi, but none of his stuff. Link please?

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/ ... ixd4.shtml

About 90% iron and ca. 0.01% Nickel in both probes (Argon is probably carrier gas).
Copper before about 0.1%, after 10%.
Note: If you put piece of iron in a ionic copper solution, the copper will stick to the iron.
Any comments?

This is exactly what I was talking about. These two graphs remind me mightily of some graphs out of Piantelli's work. This may be a situation of confusion or even of fraudulent assignment. But I don't believe this is from Rossi's work. After all, if Nickel were the main ingrediant, why would Iron (56) be the highest peak. Piantelli put a thin veneer of Nickel on an iron bar.
If Rossi in fact said that this was from his own material, then I suspect he lied... unless he for some reason duplicated Piantelli's work. Low likelihood I opine.

[KitemanSA]

Cheaply? Where was that shown?

Not shown, opined.

It was not opined either, except by you.

Again with the omniscient telepathy. Certainly opined by me. That is the definition. Whether anyone else shares the opinion, I don't know. I seem to recall some sort of concurrence, but I am not interested in finding it.

But the no one has shown the contrary either.

Coffe cup.
I guess those thousands of scientists who were thinking of new methods for enrichment for decades are all morons compared to Rossi. Who now can't even do highschool physics anymore.

Really? There have been THOUSANDS of scientists looking to enrich NICKEL? Really? Why?
Obviously enriching 235UF6 which is ~ 0.8% different in weight is not their intent. And that fact that it starts at <1% of the total rather than ~70% makes no difference. Really? Seems apples and aardvarks to me.

The only thing I've seen is the cost of 5 or 6 nines fine 58Ni. That stuff is expensive. But this is not the same thing at all.

Kiteman, EITHER you claim that Rossi only has to deenrich Ni58 to, let's say, a few percent. Then your claim that Rossi does this to reduce gamma emmissions makes no sense, because if it was not deenriched, it would still not be harmful. OR you say, it will emit harmful levels of gamma if it was natural nickel, then you will have to deenrich it to ppm level so that no more radiation is detected. Between "harmful" and "nothing above background detected" there is a difference of at least 4 orders of magnitude. If you had thought about my earlier question for numbers instead of evading it, you might have noticed that yourself.

Boy you just can't keep up, can you?
Your "either" phrase is nonsense. First I don't claim anything. REMEMBER THAT. Otherwise you will continue to be afflicted by your fuzzy thinking.
I am sorry that the possibility that limiting the content of 58Ni to a low but not zero content may reduce the resultant gamma emission is beyond your cognative skills. That possibility seems quite reasonable to me. If the gamma emmissions gets buried in the noise, who would care? He MAY feel that he doesn't have to ELIMINATE it, just reduce it enough. Secondarily, in at least one post I recall, he stated something along the lines that 64Ni was more reactive than 58Ni, so it may be that there is a non-linear effect. I don't know. If you do, what is your data?
Your OR statement is purely strawman. You state that it would have to get down to PPM. 4 orders of magnitude you proclaim. Based on what? What data supports your proclamation. None? Well, then you are just flapping your unknowing trap. Put up, or shut up? Or at least acknowledge that you are spouting "opinion", not fact.

[icarus]

Icarus, may I ask your area of expertise and level of education in said area? I'm confused as to some of your posting and the connection between links.

No you may not. You have been rude and abusive and I shall treat you with nothing but the contempt you deserve. Thanks for asking though, wallow in your confusion it suits you.

[MSimon]

Ha. If and when the exact mechanism of fraud is found, I will take great pleasure in pointing out how none of the skeptics on this board correctly predicted how it was done.

How is it possible to predict a fraud in all details? And who cares? Just knowing it is a fraud is sufficient for protection. Assuming you wish to be protected.

And besides the EEStor story has yet to be fully revealed. There are a few faithful still waiting.

I expect that in 6 to 9 months you will either be gone or avoid bringing up the subject. My observation is that very few have the courage to admit stupidity in public.

I think you suffer from a lack of reading comprehension.

I do not and have never predicted that the ecat is legitimate.

All I have done is point out flaws in the reasoning of those who postulated possible mechanisms of fraud.

If a mechanism of fraud is discovered I will acknowledge it with grace.

With regard to ee stor. I never felt the need to post in that forum, since there was no credible science behind it, and no experiments have ever overcome the obvious barriers to device performance (Quantum digital batteries seem interesting however). This device is very much different from eestor, since it cannot possibly be self delusion or a classic case of failing to reach technological milestones (predictably because of material limitations) this device must be deliberate fraud or it must be legitimate

So Mr. P is used as "proof" of Rossi but he has something completely different? No wonder it is difficult to keep up.

BTW there is no proof of reaching any milestones. Unless you count getting 470 Kw out of a 500 Kw generator a milestone. Assuming that is what happened. It is possible that nothing happened. Aside from thirty or forty styrofoam boxes covered in tinfoil (no longer fashionable as hats) with various technical protrusions. .

I think for the technical community this is the "blow off". Just the way that EEStor's customer (who was actually known) was the "blow off" for that particular piece of wizardry.

[MSimon]

Icarus, may I ask your area of expertise and level of education in said area? I'm confused as to some of your posting and the connection between links.

No you may not. You have been rude and abusive and I shall treat you with nothing but the contempt you deserve. Thanks for asking though, wallow in your confusion it suits you. :)

Ah. I assume you have no area of technical expertise.

Me - former Naval Nuke and self taught aerospace engineer.

[Giorgio]

I was just noticing that this thread has entered self-sustaining mode.
With no new (or real) info input it was able anyhow to keep generating a constant flow of new pages albeit if with a very low value content.

I thus theorize that people's bitching about a subject will keep an high heat level in any closed system without need of any external input.
Maybe we have discovered Rossi's secret sauce after all.

[MSimon]

I was just noticing that this thread has entered self-sustaining mode.
With no new (or real) info input it was able anyhow to keep generating a constant flow of new pages albeit if with a very low value content.

I thus theorize that people's bitching about a subject will keep an high heat level in any closed system without need of any external input.
Maybe we have discovered Rossi's secret sauce after all.

LULZ!!11!!

[ScottL]

Icarus, may I ask your area of expertise and level of education in said area? I'm confused as to some of your posting and the connection between links.

No you may not. You have been rude and abusive and I shall treat you with nothing but the contempt you deserve. Thanks for asking though, wallow in your confusion it suits you.

My confusion is about you, not what you posted. What you posted doesn't apply nor would it add to Rossi's claims or arguments. My question about your qualifications is to figure out why you're posting nonsense.

[icarus]

The there is the work of Arata that may have some relevance being a gas cell rather than electrolyte type of P&F, etc:

http://www.rexresearch.com/arata/arata.htm

"A practical method of generating heat energy which attains an excellent efficiency of heat energy generation; and an apparatus for generating heat energy. The apparatus for heat energy generation has a first space and a second space which are separated from each other by a first vessel having permeability to heavy hydrogen. In the method for heat energy generation, the apparatus is used to generate heat energy. The second space is in a vacuum state and has, placed therein, a substance having the property of absorbing heavy hydrogen. The method for heat energy generation comprises a step in which heavy-hydrogen gas is fed to the first space and a step in which the temperature of the heavy-hydrogen gas present in the first space is kept within a given temperature range so that heavy-hydrogen molecules of the heavy hydrogen gas present in the first space permeate as heavy-hydrogen ions through the first vessel. "

I'll admit I'm a little partial to ultra-sonic excitation twist Arata mentions, inducing coherence of the lattice phonons seems to be an obviously useful control knob.

[icarus]

Btw, Arata had independent verification from Kitamura and Kidwell

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Kitamu ... alouse.pdf

http://www.lenr-canr.org/News.htm (scroll way down)

[Joseph Chikva]

Worse, I am ASSuming that what a third world country can do, a first world country can do "cheaply".

Wrong. As a rule all works done in the "third countries" are much cheaper. If measuring in money. As "big money" for third country may be not so big for the first.
Regarding to your statement that nickel enrichment process via magnetic separation of beam, you are wrong again. As "high current cyclotron" produces about mA order current and so 6.25E15/Z particles per second.
There are ion diodes producing even hundreds thousands Amperes but with high energy spread - less suitable for separation. You should totally strip all ions till nucleus that is not easy. Than estimate the cost of cyclotron and compare to how much nickel you should separate in this way. Not big amount. The idea of process is simple, process is universal for all elements including Uranium but that is not cheap. No individual not owing even coffee machine can do that. Licensing? You can enrich Uranium.

[Ivy Matt]

And if you want to invest in Piantelli that could be an alternative outlet for your scepticism of Rossi .... (unless you also think he is also a fraud, deluded, incompetent, has idiotic set-ups, running an elaborate scam, etc, etc)

Of the various cold fusion hypotheses I have read about, Piantelli's appeals to me the most. But, still....

Every cold fusion hypothesis requires some kind of a leap of faith, positing that subatomic particles will do certain things in certain conditions that they have not generally been observed to do before. Design an experiment that demonstrates that one of those leaps is actually physically possible under the conditions of cold fusion, and you've gone a long way to rehabilitating cold fusion's scientific reputation.

Regarding investment in Piantelli, my understanding was that Piantelli's group was trying to set up some kind of fund that would allow ordinary enthusiasts to help fund their experiments, not promising any kind of a return on their investment, although experimental success, followed by commercialization, could result in the enthusiasts' shares being converted to normal shares in the company. Or something like that. Anyway, it's all moot now if I read Roy Virgilio's latest posts correctly. He seems to be saying that the law did not permit them to go forward with that kind of arrangement. (Apparently you need to have a certain amount of capital in order to get fleeced. I'm sure I don't meet that requirement, and even if I did I would be very hesitant to invest until I was quite certain of Piantelli's ability and willingness to obtain and divulge conclusive results one way or the other.)

[Joseph Chikva]

Piantelli's hypothesis:

"The process involves molecular hydrogen (H2) being adsorbed onto the surface of a crystalline transition metal that has a partially-filled electron shell. Under the right conditions the H2 molecules dissociate and pick up valence electrons from the metal, becoming hydrogen anions (H−), also known as hydrides. The H− ion consists of a proton with two electrons. As protons and electrons have equal and opposite charges, the H− ion has a net negative charge.

According to Piantelli’s hypothesis, under the right conditions a H− ion can replace an electron of a transition metal atom, just as a muon replaces an electron in muon-catalyzed fusion. Due to its relatively large mass, the H− ion continually falls to lower electron levels, causing the emission of X-rays and Auger electrons. As it has a net negative charge, there is no Coulomb repulsion to hinder its progress toward the transition metal nucleus. At the lowest level the H− ion is close enough to be captured by the nucleus. After capturing the H− ion, the unstable nucleus releases energy and eventually expels the anion in the form of a proton."

http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2011 ... ypothesis/

"anion capture" or "anion-catalyzed LENR" ... interesting, no?

That is nonsense. As dimensions of electron clouds of atoms/ions on a few orders higher than strong forces acting length.
Comparing with muon catalysis is not quite correct. As muon cloud has dimension comparable with nucleus's dimension. Unlike to electron's clouds.

[icarus]

G. Miley gives a talk about his unit ... seems real confident about repeatability ... I'd say LENR is now busting through the windows of cathedral science.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kiholobay#p/u/2/N1m2wQevFAY

starts around 4:30 in, terrible sound quality.

Has some interesting ideas about clusters of D2 or H, 100 or so atoms forming (condensing?) in the metal nanoparticles defects and then a trigger setting off a cascade of reactions at that site with pressure pulses (?), measures 20 MeV D+ and excess heats ... jumps over a slide about BEC's.

Throw it in the mix.

edit: fixed D2 to D+ typo

[Joseph Chikva]

measures 20 MeV D2

Is this cold fusion?
If the goal of "hot" is to get 3.5MeV from D-D reaction.
Do you not tired to post nonsenses?

How can you keep D2 at 20MeV
What dissiciation energy D2 has? And what ionization energy?