Reactor Dome blown away.

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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AcesHigh
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Post by AcesHigh »

Skipjack wrote:On average an Austrian river power plants produces 10 megawatts...
A nuclear powerplant, even a small one produces about 600 Megawatts...
here in Brazil we have only 2 nuclear powerplants, (Angra 1 and Angra 2) and a 3rd one under construction (Angra 3).

combined, a total power output of 3.000 MW.

Itaipu however produced 14.000 MW. (average year production of 90.000 GWh in the last decade)

Norway, Canada and Switzerland also produce most of their energy through hydroelectric powerplants.

Torulf2
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Post by Torulf2 »

In Sweden we have 10 reactors. Two have been closed due to brainless fear and political compromises. I fear this will have bad influences on the energy politics. Some people her sounds to be hysterical.
Of cores there are danger in radioactive expose. But that released in Japan until now is about the same as 5 X-ray exposal's at hospital. The risk of cancer in Japan is worse from the smoke from burning buildings an oil.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

From what I have heard the radiation levels are ridiculously low and nowhere near dangerous.
0.000,021 Sievert and that only for a few minutes..

Aces, Itaipu is the largest hydropower plant in the world. It is rare to find the geological conditions for building such a plant.
In Austria we dont even have the room to build anything like that.
Plus, it gets really cold here and rivers often ice over making it necessary to turn off the plants occasionally in winter. Then we buy it from nuclear plants in neighboring countries.
Of course huge hydro- plants like that also pose environmental problems...

AcesHigh
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Post by AcesHigh »

Skipjack wrote:From what I have heard the radiation levels are ridiculously low and nowhere near dangerous.
0.000,021 Sievert and that only for a few minutes..

Aces, Itaipu is the largest hydropower plant in the world. It is rare to find the geological conditions for building such a plant.
In Austria we dont even have the room to build anything like that.
Plus, it gets really cold here and rivers often ice over making it necessary to turn off the plants occasionally in winter. Then we buy it from nuclear plants in neighboring countries.
Of course huge hydro- plants like that also pose environmental problems...
yes, I am aware of all that (although I guess 3 Gorges in China has surpassed Itaipu, hasnt it? I heard however that although the 3 Gorges capacity is larger (18000MW vs 14000 in Itaipu), its yearly output is smaller because the water flow is not as constant as that of the Paraná river.

as for Austria not having room to build anything like that, my question is about how can SWITZERLAND be mainly powered by hydroelectricity? And I would think Norway would have even more problems with frozen rivers and lakes.

choff
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Post by choff »

Another reactor hydrogen explosion.

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/cbc- ... d=27986083
CHoff

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

Yup, and it is a Mark I BWR, but burning enhanced fuel. This one has recovered Pu mixed in it. Going to be a dirtier cleanup than Unit 1. Well discussed over on the thread in General.

ltgbrown
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Post by ltgbrown »

Norway, Canada and Switzerland also produce most of their energy through hydroelectric powerplants.
Albania gets all of its power from hydroelectric powerplants.
Famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

Tom Ligon
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Post by Tom Ligon »

Cut through the mis-information here. The article I link at the bottom of this post is not too bad, considering all the wretched reporting on the topic.

The reactor problems in Japan are bad versions of Three Mile Island. The only similarity they have to Chernobyl is that uranium is being used to make steam. The Japanese reactors pretty much cannot catch fire. Chernobyl was a pile of radioactive charcoal briquettes.

1. The reactors "scrammed" as soon as the quake hit a particular threshold. The control rods slid in and stopped the chain reaction.

2. The reactors continued to produce heat due to decay of the fission products. The emergency cooling systems were damaged in this large quake, and they have had trouble removing this heat.

3. Like TMI, they built up hydrogen gas in the reactors, a result of the high temperature and the fuel rod cladding reacting. Either hydrogen or steam can cause the water coolant to be displaced, exposing the fuel rods. The explosions have been the result of venting the hydrogen into the outer containment buildings.

4. Some commentators have seemed to imply that the Japanese reactors have concrete containment buildings comparable to the airplane-resistant domes US reactors use. In fact, they are pretty much like tin Butler Buildings. Which may actually not be too bad when hydrogen explodes in them.

5. Back in the day, we worried about "China Syndrome", in which melted fuel puddles in the bottom of the reactor vessel and the reaction restarts, burning thru the bottom and heading for China (unlikely in this case as the material would have to move sideways). China Syndrome was never especially likely, but material escaping the vessel would be Bad News, especially as one of them is fueled with some plutonium (really toxic stuff in addition to the radioactivity). The basic idea of this is that a meltdown potentially moves the fuel to where the control rods cannot control the reaction.

6. But the article shows these clever nuclear engineers are mixing boric acid (boron 10 is a potent neutron poison) into the seawater they are pumping into the reactors. They are not just pumping in coolant, they are trying to make sure the reaction cannot re-start in the event of a meltdown.

There will be some radioactive material released in these accidents. This is unfortunate, but a look around the country ought to show it is a quibble compared to the other damage. Much will depend on the amount released and where it goes. Consider, though, that there was some contaminated gas leaked from TMI. Estimates of the total deaths caused by leaked radiation from TMI are exactly zero. This event may be somewhat higher, but I doubt it will be much.

I think any environmental concerns about nuclear energy must be balanced against the alternatives. Notice all those fires burning. Many are due to petrochemicals, including refinery fires. There must be fuel spills all over the place. Certainly all those vehicles are contaminating the environment.

I'm hoping a rational view of this does not discourage nuclear industry. It would be wise to learn from it, though. Design the backups so the systems differ enough to not all fail by the same mechanism. Allowing external generators and pumps to be attached from a safe distance, and providing hydrogen vent lines out of the containment building, thru lines that should also resist damage (I'm honestly thinking rubber hose here), may be worth considering.

The reactors will probably wind up being entombed, like the damaged reactor at TMI was.



Factbox: What is happening inside Japan's nuclear reactors?
Reuters, Mon Mar 14, 8:33 am ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_japan_quake_core_factbox

Betruger
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Post by Betruger »

Tom Ligon wrote:2. The reactors continued to produce heat due to decay of the fission products. The emergency cooling systems were damaged in this large quake, and they have had trouble removing this heat.
Was it the quake or the tsunami flooding that damaged them?

Tom Ligon
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Post by Tom Ligon »

A reporter on WTOP today was saying tsunami, but I'm not sure of the accuracy of that. Google Maps has an option for showing the evacuation zones, and puts the center of the map pins right on the coast, so maybe.

Another thing ... this thread started by saying the "domes" collapsed. Horse-hocky, also circulated by the media. These reactors were in sheet metal buildings. This may have actually been helpful when the hydrogen explosions occurred, because the buildings came apart easily, dissapating the energy. On one image you can clearly see a shock wave.

I'm not in favor of hydrogen explosions in either Butler Buildings or 3-ft thick concrete containment domes. I would think we could figure a way to install hydrogen vents to allow any hydrogen generated to be sent outside, possibly thru a radionuclide filter.

Containment domes would have withstood tsunamis, but the Japanese are no strangers to earthquakes and tsunamis, so I expect they built for this event. They do have tsunami walls in many areas ... the videos show the water coming over them carrying ships. Maybe they were simply overrun.

Some data ... these are Boiling Water Reactors.
http://www.japannuclear.com/nuclearpowe ... ation.html

Torulf2
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Post by Torulf2 »

From vat experts says here in Sweden the power plant made the quake excellent. They stopped and the emergency cooling started. But the tsunami destroyed the diesel power plant providing electricity for the cooling pumps. They have no readiness for a so large tsunami.
In large things in Japan looks to been relatively safe from the earth quake but vulnerable to the tsunami.

choff
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Post by choff »

I just saw a report on the news that TEPCO stores its spent fuel rods above the reactor core, close to the ceilings that were blown off. Can anyone verify if this is true and if this complicates things.
CHoff

Torulf2
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Post by Torulf2 »


kunkmiester
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Post by kunkmiester »

I just saw a report on the news that TEPCO stores its spent fuel rods above the reactor core, close to the ceilings that were blown off. Can anyone verify if this is true and if this complicates things.
This doesn't make sense. Spent rods need to be kept in water for cooling and radiation suppression for months. Besides, you need the top of the reactor clear so you can get to it for various purposes, and for the amount of time a fuel rod would be stored, I can't see that as practical.
Evil is evil, no matter how small

AcesHigh
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Post by AcesHigh »

that China syndrome story is the biggest nonsense I ever heard. Why would molten radiactive material cross the entire Earth, if the center of gravity is in the CENTER of Earth, and above all, the center of Earth (and probably most of the molten lava below the crust) is HOTTER than the molten radioactive material???

lots not even forget that there must be lots of radioactive material down there close to the core.

IF these small quantities of molten uranium could cross the thin crust, it would probably be spread around all the molten material below the crust like pee in the ocean.

But I doubt it can even cross the crust. Probably cant get more than some 50 meters deep before the dispersed heat is as much as the heat produced.

If it COULD cross the crust, we humans WOULD USE such technic, in remote locations, to bore holes through the crust, to study plate tectonics, the center of Earth, etc.

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