Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:11 am
"Well Park, it works. What do you need?"
"50% more."
"50% more."
a discussion forum for Polywell fusion
https://talk-polywell.org/bb/
...except when that bad call and un-acceptable risk taking is ITER...ladajo wrote:Maybe they finally figured out they can not keep DT success quiet unless they forgo the immediate transition to PB&J. In effect presenting an appearance of slow rolling 8.0 progress, while setting a very strong base to quickly transition to 8.1
<removes foil hat>
We really have not public indication on how well 8.0 has done to date other than the seeming ready willingness of ONR to toss them a 50% plus up on contract and the previous commentary and J&A verbage which seems to indicate other than E-guns, they are getting all they expected. Logically that seems to say that even the drive capability they had, they got what they planned for. In simple terms, I have seen nothing that indicates they have not been tracking on modelled predictions, which in itself is big news IMHO. And given the austere $$ environment these days, I can not imagine that ONR would roll dice that dramatically without a solid foundation to base the decision on.
Money really is tight these days, and heads roll routinely for "bad calls" and "un-acceptable risk taking".
Laughs uncontrollably.happyjack27 wrote:...except when that bad call and un-acceptable risk taking is ITER...ladajo wrote:Maybe they finally figured out they can not keep DT success quiet unless they forgo the immediate transition to PB&J. In effect presenting an appearance of slow rolling 8.0 progress, while setting a very strong base to quickly transition to 8.1
<removes foil hat>
We really have not public indication on how well 8.0 has done to date other than the seeming ready willingness of ONR to toss them a 50% plus up on contract and the previous commentary and J&A verbage which seems to indicate other than E-guns, they are getting all they expected. Logically that seems to say that even the drive capability they had, they got what they planned for. In simple terms, I have seen nothing that indicates they have not been tracking on modelled predictions, which in itself is big news IMHO. And given the austere $$ environment these days, I can not imagine that ONR would roll dice that dramatically without a solid foundation to base the decision on.
Money really is tight these days, and heads roll routinely for "bad calls" and "un-acceptable risk taking".
Inference is always dangerous, but I'd have to agree: presumably they've seen WB scaling, because without that, as Rick put it, "we can kiss our butts goodbye." I think we can tentatively rule out a $10M disastrously leaky machine like HEPS was (no offense to Bussard intended!).ladajo wrote:Logically that seems to say that even the drive capability they had, they got what they planned for. In simple terms, I have seen nothing that indicates they have not been tracking on modelled predictions, which in itself is big news IMHO.
Looks like they spent $1.2 Mil to get through the summer.ladajo wrote:Dates Amounts
Date Signed (mm/dd/yyyy) : 05/03/2012
Effective Date (mm/dd/yyyy) : 05/03/2012
Completion Date (mm/dd/yyyy) : 10/31/2013
Est. Ultimate Completion Date (mm/dd/yyyy) : 09/10/2014
........................................................Current.............Total
Action Obligation:...........................$0.00................$7,855,504.14
Base And Exercised Options Value:$5,247,611.00....$16,319,940.95
Base And All Options Value:............$5,247,611.00...$17,558,191.74
Products:
Description Of Requirement: Plasma Wiffleball 8.0
N6893609C0125 Click on "view" for Update P00010
I am very happy. But this $5.25 Million plus up also provides no indication yet of exercising options for 8.1 as I can tell.[/url]
I think there is no doubt that D-T fusion is the winner for fusion density and easability (word?).mvanwink5 wrote:
PS I still wonder which has a smaller volume footprint, D-T or B-11? Also, which is quicker to boat? I suspect D-T on both counts. If so, might the Navy be interested in small and quick, hence plus up to obtain WB-8 nuanced details, WB-8.1 for later, lower priority?
Not so.ladajo wrote:Please do not forget that D-T is an inherent part of the D-D chain, as previously discussed. It is not the primary, but D-T will occur given the T production in the D-D reactions.
Tell him about the Twinkie.D Tibbets wrote:Not so.ladajo wrote:Please do not forget that D-T is an inherent part of the D-D chain, as previously discussed. It is not the primary, but D-T will occur given the T production in the D-D reactions.
as described by Bussard, the tritium and helium3 produced in the D-D fusion reactions, do not undergo further significant fusion. This is part of the reactants and products forming a thermalized broth in an ignition machine like in a Tokamak and which does not occur in a Polywell. This is because the KE of these fusion products are well above the potential well, so just like the alpha particle from B-B11 fusion they leave the system before heating the plasma or having enough passes for fusion to be likely.
The only way is for the tritium and He3 to be harvested, processed and reintroduced at energies comparable to the deuterium fuel energy (potential well). Bussard described this as a a specific option in one of his papers. If Q's are marginal with pure D-D fusion, supplementing the energy output by recycling the easy burning tritium may be a necessary portion of the process for it to be practical. It is also a good way to get rid of the otherwise waste tritium. The He3 may have other useful applications.
Dan Tibbets
Dan,D Tibbets wrote:Not so.ladajo wrote:Please do not forget that D-T is an inherent part of the D-D chain, as previously discussed. It is not the primary, but D-T will occur given the T production in the D-D reactions.
as described by Bussard, the tritium and helium3 produced in the D-D fusion reactions, do not undergo further significant fusion. This is part of the reactants and products forming a thermalized broth in an ignition machine like in a Tokamak and which does not occur in a Polywell. This is because the KE of these fusion products are well above the potential well, so just like the alpha particle from B-B11 fusion they leave the system before heating the plasma or having enough passes for fusion to be likely.
The only way is for the tritium and He3 to be harvested, processed and reintroduced at energies comparable to the deuterium fuel energy (potential well). Bussard described this as a a specific option in one of his papers. If Q's are marginal with pure D-D fusion, supplementing the energy output by recycling the easy burning tritium may be a necessary portion of the process for it to be practical. It is also a good way to get rid of the otherwise waste tritium. The He3 may have other useful applications.
Dan Tibbets