maybe neutrinos are not faster than light... but they "jump" in space time in the moment of their creation? Something along those lines. Thus, if we had the precise moment of creation of the neutrinos in that burst, 160 thousand light years ago, they would still arrive here only a few nanoseconds before expected.Gandalf wrote: These results are 60 ns in about 2 ms, or a factor of 0.00003. The LMC (home of SN1987A) is 160,000 light years away, so this would have the neutrino signal arriving several years ahead of the optical signal.
Ergo, your skepticism is justified. Good call on the comparison measure.
CERN caught speeding
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CaptainBeowulf
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 am
I too do not see how GR can really be wrong.
However, it could be quite incomplete. There may be things that move faster than light.
I've voiced my suspicion before that the universe may be even weirder than we think - causality may not always hold true. Again, this may suggest that...
On the other hand, there's still plenty of room of experimental error here.
However, it could be quite incomplete. There may be things that move faster than light.
I've voiced my suspicion before that the universe may be even weirder than we think - causality may not always hold true. Again, this may suggest that...
On the other hand, there's still plenty of room of experimental error here.
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."CaptainBeowulf wrote:I've voiced my suspicion before that the universe may be even weirder than we think - causality may not always hold true.
-- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
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rjaypeters
- Posts: 869
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- Location: Summerville SC, USA
You are in good company:CaptainBeowulf wrote: I've voiced my suspicion before that the universe may be even weirder than we think - causality may not always hold true.
"I have no doubt that in reality the future will be vastly more surprising than anything I can imagine. Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."
Possible Worlds and Other Papers (1927), p. 286, J. B. S. Haldane
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/J._B._S._Haldane
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence
R. Peters
R. Peters
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kunkmiester
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- Contact:
Variations have been proposed to accommodate a variable light speed and time as the constant. I remember finding a different mass-energy equation, which had an extra operation instead of C IIRC to calculate C from a time constant and something else, but I can't find the formula. Plenty of sites talking about classical relativity vs Einsteinian, but they either use more complex formulae(I'm sure one would simplify to what I want, but staring at math too much kills me.) or don't mention it at all, and most make some statements which put them in the dubious category for reference.
I barely know enough to get in trouble on this. A lot was looking at Tesla's work, and since he did most of it with ether theory, understanding that is needed to really make sense of how he was looking at his inventions and experiments, and other alternative physics thoughts come up with looking at that stuff--half the people seem to be partly crazy.
I barely know enough to get in trouble on this. A lot was looking at Tesla's work, and since he did most of it with ether theory, understanding that is needed to really make sense of how he was looking at his inventions and experiments, and other alternative physics thoughts come up with looking at that stuff--half the people seem to be partly crazy.
Evil is evil, no matter how small
So, today our actual Minister of "Education, University and Research" issued a press release stating:
This is really depressing....
and:"I extend my congratulations to the authors of a historical experiment. I am deeply grateful to all the Italian researchers who contributed to this event that will change the face of modern physics. Being able to exceed the speed of light is a monumental victory for scientific research around the world."
In 20 lines of press release she demonstrated that she has no idea about what the experiment was, how it was done, where it was conducted and what the results has been.The construction of the tunnel between CERN and Gran Sasso Laboratories, through which the experiment took place, was partially financed by Italy with a sum now estimated at around 45 million euros.
This is really depressing....
The idea that neutrinos could travel faster than C has been around for quite a while...
Behind paywall, but the 1985 paper is here:
The neutrino as a tachyon
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9385904605
Wikipedia describes that paper here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard-Model_Extension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz-vi ... cillations
Above my pay grade to know which view is correct, but FTL neutrinos have been predicted in the literature for some time.
Behind paywall, but the 1985 paper is here:
The neutrino as a tachyon
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9385904605
Wikipedia describes that paper here:
Aspects in more detail here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon
In 1985 it was proposed by Chodos et al. that neutrinos can have a tachyonic nature. Today, the possibility of having standard particles moving at superluminal speeds is a natural consequence of unconventional dispersion relations that appear in the Standard-Model Extension, a realistic description of the possible violation of Lorentz invariance in field theory. In this framework, neutrinos experience Lorentz-violating oscillations and can travel faster than light at high energies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard-Model_Extension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz-vi ... cillations
Above my pay grade to know which view is correct, but FTL neutrinos have been predicted in the literature for some time.
From the experiment done back in 2008 as discussed in this article, quantum information can travel at speeds that exceed 100,000 times C (the speed of light in a vacuum):
http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080813/ ... .1038.html
The concept of time may not necessary apply to quantum particles.
Einstein called such behavior “spooky action at a distance”, because he found it deeply unsettling. He and other physicists clung to the idea that there might be some other way for the particles to communicate with each other at or near the speed of light.
The experiment shows that in quantum mechanics at least, some things transcend space-time, says Terence Rudolph, a theorist at Imperial College London. It also shows that humans have attached undue importance to the three dimensions of space and one of time we live in, he argues. “We think space and time are important because that’s the kind of monkeys we are.”
Some theorists believe that particles connected by quantum entanglement communicate in a higher dimension other that the four that we know from our everyday life.
Also, “Hints of universal behavior seen in exotic three-atom states” at http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-hin ... -atom.html
anounce a new field of quantum chemistry where multiple atoms entangle themselves at low energy in “Trimers”.
The trimers were first predicted almost 40 years ago by theoretical physicist Vitaly Efimov. The most striking feature of Efimov's prediction was that the effect was both universal and repeating. That meant that the trimers could form from anything, be it as large as an atom or as small as a quark. And it also meant that Efimov's trimers would form repeatedly, up and down the energy scale in a stepwise fashion. Efimov, now at the University of Washington, even predicted the spacing in energy of the trimers; he said they would appear every time the binding energy increased by a factor of 22.7.
“Efimov's 1970 work met with much skepticism, especially since his prediction specified that three particles could form stable partnerships even though none of the two-particle matchups were stable. That is, 3 particles could accomplish what 2 particles could not. This novel arrangement has been compared to the "Borromean Rings," a set of three rings used on heraldic symbol for the Borromeo family during the Italian Renaissance. The three rings hold together unless any one of the rings is removed.”
Creating and braking the "Borromean Rings," require a higher topological dimension than our classical Einsteinian world can support.
“These trimers are quantum objects; they have no classical counterpart. The weak binding of the super-cold Cs atoms is described in terms of a parameter, a, called the scattering length. If a is positive and large (much larger than the nominal range of the force between the atoms), weak binding of atoms can happen.
If a is negative, a slight attraction of two atoms can occur but not binding. If, however, a is large, negative, and three atoms are present, then the Efimov state can appear. Indeed an infinite number of such states can occur. The Efimov state has an energy spectrum, as if it were a chemical element all by itself, with each binding energy level scaling with the value of a. This kind of universal behavior was expected.”
By the way, I speculate that Mills chemistry might possibly be explained by entangled high energy trimer quantum objects as opposed to hydrino theory.
http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080813/ ... .1038.html
The concept of time may not necessary apply to quantum particles.
Einstein called such behavior “spooky action at a distance”, because he found it deeply unsettling. He and other physicists clung to the idea that there might be some other way for the particles to communicate with each other at or near the speed of light.
The experiment shows that in quantum mechanics at least, some things transcend space-time, says Terence Rudolph, a theorist at Imperial College London. It also shows that humans have attached undue importance to the three dimensions of space and one of time we live in, he argues. “We think space and time are important because that’s the kind of monkeys we are.”
Some theorists believe that particles connected by quantum entanglement communicate in a higher dimension other that the four that we know from our everyday life.
Also, “Hints of universal behavior seen in exotic three-atom states” at http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-hin ... -atom.html
anounce a new field of quantum chemistry where multiple atoms entangle themselves at low energy in “Trimers”.
The trimers were first predicted almost 40 years ago by theoretical physicist Vitaly Efimov. The most striking feature of Efimov's prediction was that the effect was both universal and repeating. That meant that the trimers could form from anything, be it as large as an atom or as small as a quark. And it also meant that Efimov's trimers would form repeatedly, up and down the energy scale in a stepwise fashion. Efimov, now at the University of Washington, even predicted the spacing in energy of the trimers; he said they would appear every time the binding energy increased by a factor of 22.7.
“Efimov's 1970 work met with much skepticism, especially since his prediction specified that three particles could form stable partnerships even though none of the two-particle matchups were stable. That is, 3 particles could accomplish what 2 particles could not. This novel arrangement has been compared to the "Borromean Rings," a set of three rings used on heraldic symbol for the Borromeo family during the Italian Renaissance. The three rings hold together unless any one of the rings is removed.”
Creating and braking the "Borromean Rings," require a higher topological dimension than our classical Einsteinian world can support.
“These trimers are quantum objects; they have no classical counterpart. The weak binding of the super-cold Cs atoms is described in terms of a parameter, a, called the scattering length. If a is positive and large (much larger than the nominal range of the force between the atoms), weak binding of atoms can happen.
If a is negative, a slight attraction of two atoms can occur but not binding. If, however, a is large, negative, and three atoms are present, then the Efimov state can appear. Indeed an infinite number of such states can occur. The Efimov state has an energy spectrum, as if it were a chemical element all by itself, with each binding energy level scaling with the value of a. This kind of universal behavior was expected.”
By the way, I speculate that Mills chemistry might possibly be explained by entangled high energy trimer quantum objects as opposed to hydrino theory.
Confirmation from CERN using 3ns pulse lengths.
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -confirmed
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -confirmed
Aero
Uhm....puzzling if true.Aero wrote:Confirmation from CERN using 3ns pulse lengths.
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -confirmed