10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Re: Changes...

Post by Giorgio »

Nik wrote:Uh, if there's some physical difference between functional and non-functional particles, sorting them may simply require a cascade of challenges, like a coin-sorter or magnetic scrap separator. Even a 60/40 split soon mounts up if stages are recycled...
I am sure there are a lot more ways than I know to characterize nanoparticles.
I am also sure there is no one way today to "individually test each nanoparticle and select it if accepted".

One should at least consider that there is plenty of people reading this forum and, if no one points out to the contrary, some of them might even come to believe that such methods exist and that Ing. Rossi is actually doing this type of stuff.

Everyone is free to make speculations, but he should say so in the start or in the end of his post.

/rant

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: Changes...

Post by Axil »

Giorgio wrote:
Nik wrote:Uh, if there's some physical difference between functional and non-functional particles, sorting them may simply require a cascade of challenges, like a coin-sorter or magnetic scrap separator. Even a 60/40 split soon mounts up if stages are recycled...
I am sure there are a lot more ways than I know to characterize nanoparticles.
I am also sure there is no one way today to "individually test each nanoparticle and select it if accepted".

One should at least consider that there is plenty of people reading this forum and, if no one points out to the contrary, some of them might even come to believe that such methods exist and that Ing. Rossi is actually doing this type of stuff.

Everyone is free to make speculations, but he should say so in the start or in the end of his post.

/rant
Did you not read the references?

What does “Each nanoparticle or nanocomposite material is characterized” mean?

Or “allows the sizing of individual nanoparticles” mean?

Or what does ……………… mean?

In Rossi's case selection can be done by electrostatic and/or magnetic means.

Modern technology is unbelievable at times. Yes…

Kahuna
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Location: CA

Post by Kahuna »

For those with an interest, here is the backstory (as told by Focardi) on how he and Rossi hooked up and some limited info on the E-Cat device development. Evidently, Rossi was all about the Ni powder from the get-go. It also becomes apparent why Focardi pushed the early demo as he had almost died from a tumor and wanted to see some public demonstration before his time was up.

I thought this statement was interesting:
In Bondeno we ran the experiments for months, using different devices. Rossi works in the USA as well, and he conducted similar experiments there too. Both with Naval Research and with the DOE ...
So the Navy may have broader "fusion" energy interests than just Polywell.

http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/04/ser ... -cold.html

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Re: Changes...

Post by Giorgio »

Axil wrote:Did you not read the references?

What does “Each nanoparticle or nanocomposite material is characterized” mean?

Or “allows the sizing of individual nanoparticles” mean?
It means "Hey I am a salesman and they gave me this stuff to sell, so now I am going to fill up a brochure with lots of amazing claims, than I will pass it to the tech guys who will place asterisks all over the contradictory claims and place footnotes in size "1" somewhere in the product manual".

Really you should not take what they write for granted if you do not have a clear idea of how this stuff works.
Especially the one you linked is just a microscope connected to a software that will give you a "statistical average size" of the nanoparticles suspended into a fluid that passe under the lens.
No interaction can be made, no differentiation can be applied. Is a diagnostic instrument.
There is still no solution available in the world to do what you claimed.

Axil wrote:Or what does ……………… mean?
It means "speechless".

Axil wrote:In Rossi's case selection can be done by electrostatic and/or magnetic means.
That is more coherent but you will still only get a statistically meaningful selection of the selected character you are looking for.

Axil wrote:Modern technology is unbelievable at times. Yes…
That is true, and this is why one should be smart enough to be able to differentiate between salesman talk and the way the technology works in real world applications.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Kahuna wrote:For those with an interest, here is the backstory (as told by Focardi) on how he and Rossi hooked up and some limited info on the E-Cat device development. Evidently, Rossi was all about the Ni powder from the get-go. It also becomes apparent why Focardi pushed the early demo as he had almost died from a tumor and wanted to see some public demonstration before his time was up.

I thought this statement was interesting:
In Bondeno we ran the experiments for months, using different devices. Rossi works in the USA as well, and he conducted similar experiments there too. Both with Naval Research and with the DOE ...
So the Navy may have broader "fusion" energy interests than just Polywell.

http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/04/ser ... -cold.html
This is well known. ANd in fact one of the argued reasons that ONR is reluctant to give visibility to Polywell. The classic "Cold Fusion" scandal.

Kahuna
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: CA

Post by Kahuna »

This article contains a decent summary (less technical) of the Rossi E-Cat for those who may just be tuning in although not much new info.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Fu ... 09-21.html

One interesting statement by Rossi:
When asked how he got the idea, Rossi simply stated that "The idea started from the premise that using very high pressure could increase the kinetic energy of protons to obtain nuclear reactions, since one can reach very high pressures with relatively low forces by reducing the surface area on which the pressure is focused. At this point the natural candidate to provide the hammer exerting the pressure could only be hydrogen, while as the anvil on which to exert pressure, the atoms of the column number 10 of the periodic table of Mendeleev are most suitable for their high affinity with hydrogen. Obviously nickel is chosen for cost reasons."

jox
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:38 pm

Post by jox »

[Male interviewer] What was in the compound...

Yes, and it’s part of the patent.

And the purpose of this secret compound is, I believe, to facilitate

the formation of atomic hydrogen instead of molecular hydrogen,

because hydrogen typically settles down in molecules, but if one has

a molecule, it can not penetrate into the nucleus. So I think the

additive is used to this purpose: it forms atomic hydrogen, which

penetrates into the nucleus.
http://pureguard.net/cm/Library/Palladi ... ation.html
Assuming this device functions as we are led to believe. The nickel

powder may be coated directly onto a silver/palladium membrane and

functions as shown in the above link.It explains why the hydrogen

needs to be pressurized and heated...
Unless the above quote is disinformation....

chrismb
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

jox wrote:Assuming this device functions as we are led to believe. The nickel powder may be coated directly onto a silver/palladium membrane
I was tending to assume it was coated in pixie dust. I don't see anything that swings it either way just at the moment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_Bell wrote:She [tinkerbell] is trailed by small amounts of pixie dust when she moves, and this dust can help humans fly if they believe in happy thoughts.

RobL
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by RobL »

Hmm, I wonder if the nano powder is being agitated somehow and thereby enhancing the reaction rates by effectively crushing hydrogen between nickel anvils? I remember from reading some older LENR papers that there were little craters observed on the surfaces - obviously some pretty significant expulsion of material on microscopic scale.

Assuming each reaction is on the order of 6MeV, then that is about 1e-12 J, and a 'nano particle' 50nm wide will mass about 1e-15 g, so a reaction could impart up to 1MJ/kg to a nanoparticle - enough to get it moving at a velocity on the order of 100-1000m/s (Not getting into the esoteria of coupling of nuclear reaction to macroscopic particles, this is just an order of magnitude estimate, and a nanoparticle could withstand such an acceleration).

That would be enough to create some pretty high temperatures and pressures when the particle hit another particle - particularly on hydrogen atoms already within the nickel matrix, the pressures involved in moving dislocations within metal crystals even at room temp are huge; x-rays are produced when crushing grains of sugar and sellotape releases xrays when it's pulled off the roll.

If this was significant then perhaps ultrasonic agitation would help too, it may be why there is the need to feed the particles with high frequency electrical supplies - to start and then keep the agitation process going via magentic and/or electrostatically induced motion.

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Axil »

crushing hydrogen between nickel anvils?

When hydrogen enters nano-sized defects (holes) in the lattice structure of condensed matter(a metal like nickel or iron), the hydrogen atoms pack into these holes in vast numbers to exceed 100 hydrogen atoms by number per hole. The atomic packing is so dense and the electrostatic force exerted by the walls of the hole is so great that the hydrogen degenerates into an ultra-dense hydrogen H(-1) form entangled as a fermionic condensate. A fermionic condensate is a superfluid phase formed by fermionic particles. It is closely related to the Bose–Einstein condensate, a superfluid phase formed by bosonic atoms (deuterium) under similar conditions (aka cold fusion).

Hydrogen permeation of metals is a path to metalized hydrogen. It is well known that hydrogen can permeate to a remarkable extent various ordinary metals under conditions of ordinary pressure. In other cases it is possible that the hydrogen literally alloys itself with the metal (somewhat analogous to mercury amalgam formation). Certainly it is known that many metals remain metallic (e.g., palladium) after absorbing hydrogen


Doing the first test, .4 grams of hydrogen was loaded into a few grams of nickel. That is an enormous amount of hydrogen to pack into a very small quantity of nickel and the secret additive.

Therefore the Rossi process enables the massive packing of large amounts of hydrogen into any one of many different types of materials. Such dense packing indicates the formation of metalized hydrogen.

In detail, this is how such packing may be done:

Clusters of condensed hydrogen (Rydberg matter) of densities up to 10e29 atoms per cubic centimeter are packed into pores of solid oxide metal crystals were confirmed from time-of flight mass spectrometry measurements in experiments.

A picture of Rydberg matter as follows:
Image

When applied to the crystal lattices of metal oxide micro and/or nano particles, a cathode material with an ultra dense packing of hydrogen might be prepared.

The ratio of hydrogen to the host metal oxide atoms might be pushed to as high as 10 to 1 or more. In contrast to gases, the appearance of ultrahigh density clusters packed within the crystal defects in the lattice structure of various solid metal oxides were observed in several experiments, where such configurations of very high density hydrogen states could be detected from SQUID measurements of magnetic response and conductivity (Lipson et al., 2005), indicating a special state of hydrogen with metallic properties. These high density clusters have a long life (Miley et al., 2009).

Hundreds of atoms of hydrogen can be packed into each crystal defect of the metal oxide as Rydberg matter. Furthermore, the densities of defects in the metal oxide may be extremely large such that average distance between Rydberg clusters amount to about 10 atoms or closer (in subsequent on-the-fly packing) in the host lattice.


Unlike the Bose–Einstein condensates, fermionic condensates are formed using fermions instead of bosons. When mechanical vibrations in the crystal lattice are produced, during the heating of the metal lattice the fermions in the hydrogen join up to form cooper pairs which then enables the formation of the fermionic condensate.

Remember, Cooper pairs provide the enabling mechanism of superconnectivity in a Mott insulator (see below)

In some fraction of this densely packed hydrogen, an atomic inversion of the hydrogen atom pairs then occurs. This is caused by a transfer of angular momentum and kinetic energy from the electron pair to the protons under the influence of the vibrations of the crystal lattice when heat is applied to initiate the reaction.


Such heating of the nickel powder is required to initiate the Rossi reaction. As described below, Mott isolation phase transition is also enabled and optimized by increasing the distance between atomic layers of oxygen and nickel as well as increasing all atomic distances. This lattice heating also transfers kinetic energy to the trapped hydrogen increasing its pressure until its transitions to a metalized state.

The protons orbit each electron in the copper electron pair which greatly decreased the atomic size and increases the density of the degenerate hydrogen. H(-1) is 130,000 times denser than protium H(1))

The electrons in a pair are not necessarily close together; because the interaction is long range, paired electrons may still be many hundreds of nanometers apart. This distance is usually greater than the average interelectron distance; so many Cooper pairs can occupy the same space. Electrons have spin1/2, so they are fermions, but a Cooper pair is a composite boson as its total spin is integer (0 or 1).

In metalized hydrogen, the electrons are unbound and behave like the conduction electrons in a metal. In liquid metallic hydrogen, protons do not have lattice ordering; rather, it is a liquid system of protons and electrons.
enough to get it moving at a velocity on the order of 100-1000m/s
The uncertainty principle is the mechanism that energizes the hydrogen to high speeds.

The uncertainty principle states that the more you know about the position of a particle, the less you know of its momentum. With degenerate matter, since the position of the subatomic particles is compressed and packed in to a very small space, we know a lot about their position - and thus their momentum becomes unpredictable. Added by entanglement and the accumulation of kinetic energy from the lattice, the more compressed the hydrogen become, the more erratically and speedier its constituent subatomic particles move - rather than being a solid, degenerate matter acts like a cold version of plasma. The pressure buildup is so intense, the atoms stop being atoms, and the nucleus of the former hydrogen atoms breaks apart into it's constituent protons, which then break apart into their constituent sub-particles (quarks and gluons), which themselves start behaving abnormally.

Furthermore, in the condensate, all the paired orbiting protons are entangled which means they share the same quantum mechanical state. Hydrogen in this state forms Rydberg matter.
I remember from reading some older LENR papers that there were little craters observed on the surfaces - obviously some pretty significant expulsion of material on microscopic scale.
This is because the cold plasma will eventually produce a high energy nuclear transition.

Somehow this cold plasma fissions to form various elements up and down the patriotic table but mostly copper and nickel because of their “magic” number.

Any Deuterium impurities in the hydrogen will make formation of a fermionic condensate impossible. This is why a small percentage (2% to 3%) of deuterium will kill the Rossi reaction.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

Rossi has stated his catalyst is not homogeneous, so it must be heterogeneous where the nuclear process happens between the contact surface of the iron oxide nano-particle and the nickel oxide nano-particle.

The crystal structure of the nickel oxide is too dense and perfect for hydrogen to penetrate the surface of the NiO nano-particle. Any interaction with hydrogen is at the surface.

On the other hand, the iron oxide (Fe2O3) nano-particle is very porous and allows hydrogen to enter to great depth. In the many crystal defects therein, cold plasma is formed. At the surface interface between the iron and nickel nano-particle, the conditions are right for a nuclear process to occur.

I speculate that the large electrostatic attractive forces at the surface of the NiO nano-particle and the magnetic orientation character of the iron oxide nano-particle (Fe2O3) interact in some way to precipitate a situation where nuclear fission of the cold plasma happens.


The key to this process is atomic defects in condensed matter where highly dense cold plasma of hydrogen can accumulate. This is the role that Fe2O3 serves.

Remember that nickel is not critical to the Rossi process. Many other metals can serve almost as well including copper.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

Axil,

Can you expand on how your theory accounts for the spent fuel composition. Can the Fe result from the reaction described or do you still think it is all/part of the catalyst?

Also, your theory does not seem to require the secret catalyst. What role do you think it plays?

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Axil »

Kahuna wrote:Axil,

Can you expand on how your theory accounts for the spent fuel composition. Can the Fe result from the reaction described or do you still think it is all/part of the catalyst?

Also, your theory does not seem to require the secret catalyst. What role do you think it plays?
Rossi has stated his catalyst is not homogeneous, so it must be heterogeneous where the nuclear process happens between the contact surface of the iron oxide nano-particle and the nickel oxide nano-particle.

The crystal structure of the nickel oxide is too dense and perfect for hydrogen to penetrate the surface of the NiO nano-particle. Any interaction with hydrogen is at the surface.

On the other hand, the iron oxide (Fe2O3) nano-particle is very porous and allows hydrogen to enter to great depth. In the many crystal defects therein, cold plasma is formed. At the surface interface between the iron and nickel nano-particle, the conditions are right for a nuclear process to occur.

I speculate that the large electrostatic attractive forces at the surface of the NiO nano-particle and the magnetic orientation character of the iron oxide nano-particle (Fe2O3) interact in some way to precipitate a situation where nuclear fission of the cold plasma happens.


The key to this process is atomic defects in condensed matter where highly dense cold plasma of hydrogen can accumulate. This is the role that Fe2O3 serves.

Remember that nickel is not critical to the Rossi process. Many other metals can serve almost as well including copper.



Would it not be ironic that the fusion/fission of just hydrogen produces nickel and copper without nickel entering into the reaction in any way, contray to what Rossi thinks?

From the work of the LENR team: Dr H. Hora, and Dr. G.H. Miley, they derived from a large volume of LENR experimental results, Dr Miley has developed a theory of LENR transmutation that predicts this natural abundance of isotopes around the magic atomic numbers of

2, 6, 14, 28, 50, 82, 126…

Now, 28 is the atomic number of nickel, and the fission of the super atom formed during the fusion of many atoms will result in an array of elements that cluster around peaks defined by these magic numbers:

2 – helium
6 – carbon
14 – silicon
28 – nickel

There will be many transmutation events producing nickel whose atomic number (A) is 28, but also some lesser amounts producing copper (A = 29) and even less zinc (A = 30).

On the other side of the Boltzmann quark distribution described by the expression N(Z) = N’ exp (-Z/Z’) where Z’ = 10.

You get more cobalt (A = 27) and even less Iron (A = 26).

All these elements have been seen is Rossi ash.

Around the lower order magic numbers carbon (A = 6) and silicon(A = 14) are clustered the following elements:


8 - Oxygen
9 - Fluorine(captured to form fluorides)
10 - Neon (outgased ?)
11 - Sodium
12 - Magnesium
13- Silicon (mentioned as ash)
14 - Phosphorus
15 – Sulfur (mentioned as ash)
16 – Chlorine (mentioned as ash)
17 – Argon (outgased ?)
18 – Potassium (mentioned as ash)
19 – Calcium (mentioned as ash)



A further consequence of the LENR evaluation leads to the ratios R (n) (n = 1, 2, 3…) of the Boltzmann probabilities, namely R (n) = 3n. This suggests a threefold property of stable configurations at magic numbers in nuclei, consistent with a quark property.


It is as if a large amount of hydrogen atoms form into a cold plasma go into a quantum mechanical blender and turned into a coherent quark soup. In an instant, when the quark soup fissions, this LENR process produces atoms whose isotopic character is the same as exists in nature. This is to be expected since the inherent properties of quarks define what comes out of the fission process. This LENR fission process is done so gently and at such low energies that no unstable (radioactive) elements are produced.

Emitted X-rays energies correspond to the speeds of these various fission fragments rebounding away from the center of this fission process.

Helium is produced in large amounts because it is one of the magic number elements. But the fusion of helium is not required for the formation of the other elements in the Rossi ash.

IMHO, at the current time, the catalytic interaction at the surface interfaces of a heterogeneous admixture of iron and nickel nano-particles produces a fusion/fission reaction of only hydrogen resulting in the isotopic ash distribution seen in the Rossi ash product.

Torulf2
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Post by Torulf2 »

Al this elements are not find in the ash. Only Cu and Fe.
A quark soup needs extremely high energy to be formed.

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Post by Axil »

Torulf2 wrote:Al this elements are not find in the ash. Only Cu and Fe.
A quark soup needs extremely high energy to be formed.
According to the uncertainty principle the momentum (aka energy) is related to the size of the box you can put the hydrogen in. A very small box ( atomic defect) will result in very large energies among the confined hydrogen atoms.

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