LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:15 pm

Troll ladajo,
The latest photo of the plant in operation was in Mat Lewan's webinar. You said you watched it. Another lie I suppose. If you made the slightest effort you would have seen the answers to your other questions too.

Giorgio
Posts: 2640
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:30 pm

parallel wrote:Troll ladajo,

Do you think you will ever be able to bring some real scientific argument to sustain your point view? Your continuous using of this childish name calling technique does really not impress anyone around here.
Look, stars!

ladajo
Posts: 6066
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:40 pm

parallel wrote:Troll ladajo,
The latest photo of the plant in operation was in Mat Lewan's webinar. You said you watched it. Another lie I suppose. If you made the slightest effort you would have seen the answers to your other questions too.


I did watch it, but as far as I could see that "unit" could be in a garage in Milan again. You remember, like the original "secret customer factory" that turned out to be Rossiclown's own empty rental garage/lab where he claimed "independent testing". The same one where it was proved that the unit he claimed sold and shipped to a secret customer was the same unit being repackaged over and over. The one that in the end, when Rossiclown was called out on the repackaging, he claimed was simply being modified on customer request prior to shipping. The one that has since never shipped or been delivered nor talked about again by Rossiclown. What happened to that unit Parallel?

Again, Parallel, Why all the secrecy?
MFMP is trying to replicate Rossisaids in the open, using information he has disclosed, in addition to information provided by folks Rossiclown has claimed association with in the past. So far, they have NOTHING. Why can they do replication in public but Rossiclown remains in secrecy? The first sign of fraud is recurring long drawn out "magic sauce" claims.
He filed a patent, supposedly providing reproducibility, however, it does not work. Still more secrecy... why? He has IP, what is the big deal Parallel? What is he hiding?

Rossi is full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:12 pm

ladajo wrote: "
Again, Parallel, Why all the secrecy?
MFMP is trying to replicate Rossisaids in the open, using information he has disclosed,..."

You really are dumb.
Firstly MFMW is using the data from Dr. Parkenov's replication. Rossi has provided little except the patent.
Secondly, Industrial Heat is a commercial venture and would not give away the secrets and still stay in business.

krenshala
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby krenshala » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:56 pm

Parallel, what happened to the (re)repackaged "modified" unit that was supposedly sold to a "secret customer"? Is it still with Rossi's?

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Axil » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:25 pm

Rossi has some 240 patent pending or in process. To avoid compromising his patents, Rossi cannot reveal anything about the content of his technology until the patents are reviewed. To take full advantage of the massive intellectual horsepower available here, please discuss the contents of the patents as they are made available.

ladajo
Posts: 6066
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:29 pm

parallel wrote:ladajo wrote: "
Again, Parallel, Why all the secrecy?
MFMP is trying to replicate Rossisaids in the open, using information he has disclosed,..."

You really are dumb.
Firstly MFMW is using the data from Dr. Parkenov's replication. Rossi has provided little except the patent.
Secondly, Industrial Heat is a commercial venture and would not give away the secrets and still stay in business.


Still the name calling, that adds real weight to your position...

MFMP (please note the spelling), is using information from multiple sources, some of which are affiliated with Rossiclown, with an intent to replicate Rossiclown's claims. So your point is what? Are you trying to misdirect and imply that they are ONLY using Parkenov?

If Industrial Heat is using Rossiclown's IP, which he says they are, then they have absolutely no need for secrecy. Your argument is pointless and moot. They are not doing R&D, they are testing and existing product are they not? Afterall, these are Rossiclown's own words. This does not need to be secret. Why would it be? IP means they don't need to be secret in any aspect.
Why hide the location? Why hide the application? Why hide anything?
What "secrets" would Industrial Heat be giving away given that Rossiclown has made all his claims public?
Are they not testing an existing unit that has existed for over a year, and is based on whatever Rossiclown was claiming more than a year ago as developed commercial ready product?
Why do you think your 'defense' "commercial venture" with secrets in this case makes any sense at all? Why is this not a strawman?

Axil: How do you know that Rossiclown has 240 patents pending or in process? And how is a Patent Application that is published (if any) not IP protection?

Rossi is full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Axil » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:41 pm

Andrea Rossi
January 24th, 2016 at 3:33 PM
Oeystein Lande:
The questions put by your comment are treated in patents in preparation. I cannot make pre-disclosure.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi
January 23rd, 2016 at 2:04 PM
Gerard McEk:
1- he,he,he
2- obviously
3- no
4- other reasons
5- no
6- the E-Cat X has been born in November; before it becomes enough developed to allow the publication of technical data I need at least one year; also consider that any publication, even here, is a disclosure and we must complete the patent application of some new particulars before giving data, otherwise we make pre-disclosure that can jeopardize the patentability.
Warm Regards,

Andrea Rossi
January 22nd, 2016 at 3:45 PM
Riccardo Ciazza:
I understand that you bet with your friends that I was going to obtain a peer reviewed publication in a prestigious and well known site.
You won, you should get the value of the bet: my apparatus has been published in the most important and sought after peer reviewed publication of the world: the USA Patent Office. No publication is more rigorously peer reviewed and more important than the USPTO publication, also for its enormous implications related to the industrial world.
Go cash your bet!
Warm Regards
A.R.

Andrea Rossi
January 22nd, 2016 at 12:08 PM
Kurt Heckmann:
I have 204 patents pending and in preparation…
Warm Regards,
A.R.

ladajo
Posts: 6066
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:57 pm

Oh, I should have known. Rossisaid...
204... close enough I guess in the grand game of Rossiclown misdirection...

So where are the pending Rossiclown "patents" in the USPTO database?

my apparatus has been published in the most important and sought after peer reviewed publication of the world: the USA Patent Office. No publication is more rigorously peer reviewed and more important than the USPTO publication, also for its enormous implications related to the industrial world.


This makes my point even more so about secrecy not being required. I also think that USPTO would be surprised to know that they are the "most important and sought after peer reviewed publication of the world". It appears to be another example of Rossiclown making something look like it is not (sounds like it comes right out of the scam article above), USPTO does not test nor certify that a patent functions as claimed. The intent is to document ideas for protection of IP. They ASK that applications are comprehensive enough that a sufficiently skilled practitioner could replicate the claim. It is disingenuous to imply or claim that they provide validity to function. If you don't believe me, then ask them yourself.

Someone please explain why Rossiclown/Industrial Heat won't even disclose the application or site? How is that possibly going to disclose secrets of the Ecat??? Why would this matter anyway given that the unit supposedly under test is based on the patent filed? It was built more than a year ago based on Rossisaid claims back then, and now has been under test for a year. Why does it need to be protected and kept secret?

Rossi is full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

JoeP
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:36 pm

IIRC, and I very well may not, the patent he is so proud of is of his heat exchange device and not what supposedly powers the heat source. So the IP might protect the design around the so-called reactor, but everything in it remains a trade secret. I think he has some failed patents that attempted to cover his reaction, but that was rejected as violating accepted scientific knowledge, just like more cold fusion patents.

I think I have the equivalent in my quartz heater more or less. Sadly.

Edit: just looked it up and glanced through it. The patent covers the thermal transfer device. While it describes something about the chemical and structural makeup of the fuel, all I see is that it claims is an exothermic chemical reaction. This is probably why it was granted.

ladajo
Posts: 6066
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:12 pm

Yup, other than specifications regarding formfactor, it basically says: I do chemical reaction for heat using this stuff.

Rossi is full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

TallDave
Posts: 3113
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:12 pm
Contact:

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby TallDave » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:33 pm

parallel -- Thanks for keeping up on this in the face of a lot of negativity. Have you seen anything suggesting smaller units might be available soon? I worry that with the larger units Rossi may be at a price point where legitimate questions of reliability and controversy will prevent much success even if he has something here.

Unfortunately the history of industrial innovation is littered with failed companies that stumbled onto potentially useful principle but never achieved any commercial success. It looks like Defkalion has already failed. I have heard there may be some vulture VC fund interest in picking up Rossi's scraps and seeing if anything useful can cobbled together from them, if IH fails.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

ladajo
Posts: 6066
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:49 pm

I am happy to hear about real research, not whatever it is the Rossiclown is doing <Fraud>.
For example, I enjoy following MFMP. They are hiving it a real go, and using real science to advance knowledge. Negative results are probably more contributory than positives in the larger picture.

Rossi is full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Giorgio
Posts: 2640
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:35 pm

TallDave wrote:Unfortunately the history of industrial innovation is littered with failed companies that stumbled onto potentially useful principle but never achieved any commercial success. It looks like Defkalion has already failed.

True, but you need to distinguish between those companies that actually had and showed a real working product and than failed to attain commercial success from those who claimed to have a product but always failed to offer it to market scrutiny.

If history has teach us something is that so far 100% of the companies that belonged to the second type has always been scammers.
Statistically the number should be significant enough to make most people think deeply before jumping in the boat of every guy that claim to have revolutionary technology but prevent the market from actually verify its claim. Unfortunately it seems that hope for a better future sometimes will cloud the mind of otherwise smart human beings.
Defkalion is just the last of such companies. Orbo, BLP and Rossi, all belong to second type too and soon will follow. Sadly others will come to ruin an otherwise interesting field of research.
Look, stars!

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:12 pm

Talldave wrote: "Thanks for keeping up on this in the face of a lot of negativity. Have you seen anything suggesting smaller units might be available soon?"

Thanks. Good to see not everyone who comments here is a troll.
It looks like Rossi's starting product will be multiples of the 250 kW unit (used for the 1 MW plant) for industrial heat. He says he is still keen to produce domestic units but the hangup seems to be getting certification for other versions.

It is also apparent that the new E-Cat X has considerable advantages in that it produces electricity as well as heat and pending long trials will probably be the future. He has written about it being very scalable with a 500 W unit being about the size of a pencil. But, as he says, that is some way off yet. At least a year. He also mentioned that the E-Cat X will not stop getting regular E-Cats to the market as they are further developed and he wants products to sell ASAP.

Much depends on the outcome of the current i year trial. If this has the high COP that has been rumored I think the game will change and the whole LENR field will become acceptable to the academic world and getting certification less difficult. Whether ladajotroll grasps the significance is doubtful.


Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests